Anime Sharing - Netorare General Discussion Thread

[Miraluka]

Yes, it has mystery. But can we still call it "mystery" if we are served the same dish for the umpteenth time? Whether it's dialogue, the scenario or the mental state of the bride who only thinks with her pussy...
I just finished it, it's the usual eroge game served by Atelier Sakura every month. We read the story for the first time from the point of view of the protogonist and then when we start a second reading, we unlock the point of view of the unlocked bride.

After the "fake sequel of Marina", I think they're seriously starting to piss me off. :@:@
What the fuck ... There is so much to do, scenarios that have never been used for NTR and yet, Atelier Sakura are stuck in the same hellish spiral of bad production, one after another.

I've been adamant to touch At-Sakura latest games, do you mind writing a review/resume of the plots? Is it lineal or multiple endings btw?

 

[Tentacle Bandit]

I'm going to make a NTR game (yes, another want-to-be-developer appears lol). When I was writing my story, I ran into some problems that made me question my initial intend. At first I wanted to do something simple, because it's my first VN, but as the story developed, new branches routes naturally appeared. I begin to wonder what would happen if I explore those branches and the end result was a somewhat complex decision tree. Since that kind of complexity defies my initial intend (make something simple), I wanted to go back and eliminate some routes, but some of the decisions seemed just so natural to me, that it was hard to eliminate them (I mean I think it's such a waste forcing a given route into the player, instead of making the player decides what he wants to do on that point). That kind of decision tree also allows to explore various different kinds of NTR situations and endings. But if you read my past comments, I've been criticizing the last ANIM games, because they try to focus on too many things, so I realized maybe I was making the same mistake. This led me to my actual predicament:

What do I sacrifice?

So as a writer myself unless your selling your product to make a profit, focus on the story that GETS TO YOU. Or turns you on. Or interests you. Especially for a first game, because that motivation will drive you through the development phase. If your making a game for other people, then making polls is great because your using it as a metric for what your audience wants but again - who and why are you making this game for?

With Marina I've literally gone through 4 scripts, only one of which really catered to diverging paths for every type of NTR fan. For example in one I had her totally become a cheat and throw it back in Kenji's face (because he started her on this path) and even another path where Marina lets Kenji fuck other women in front of her - yes both worked but these felt so out of place in my general story as to deserve their own games - which brings my point around to this - even a short game takes time and if your not enjoying the story your crafting it around your going to lose interest or become distracted by a project that is more "you". So focus on the story you want to tell, be damned if it pisses other people off and do that. Especially for a first game.

If I wanted to write a story/game where Kenji and Marina join an S&M club - and that idea pisses off a bunch of people does it really matter if they are all getting it for free? I would say focus in one that story and develop it as best you can, so even if they don't like the themes when they play it they can still say it was a GOOD story for the theme. And that theme needs to be something YOU want to work on. Again unless your trying to sell it for money, but most early developers like myself are just trying to get something done.

As for diverging paths, do what I did. Write your main story, if you SEE a point where the story could allow other options simply NOTE it at that point and continue writing the main story line and "true ending" (or as you see it). I didn't do this the first time, but learned my lesson from it, that by focusing on that central story it allows you to go back and better develop those other paths once you have the basic story finished. If you develop each little path as you go, your story will sprawl and by the end ir won't have a clear path forward. Or at least thats what I learned.

Now for the ending - my suggestion for NTR is write it first or what you want that ending to be. IF you want the ending to be "wife is fucking neighbor and never tells husband, husband enjoys knowing that she does this and knowing that he knows she doesn't know he knows (LOL) then you have the basic plot to which you develop your story to its end. For NTR plots this really DOES help a lot.

Good luck!

 

[Tentacle Bandit]

Per the new new Atelier game I actually like the art design of the new wife and the CG itself isn't bad, if not bland - but I really hate the story of pushy bosses that fuck wives because it usually involves blackmail or the husband being a wimp which has never in my case is a turn off for NTR - but thats just me.


As for the Fantia Marina monthly series (which is not Marina 4 as many hoped) there will be a new part in may, I don't know how long they plan to continue the story arc but what is interesting is they said that its not official Marina canon, its an "IF" story. Thats apparently the appeal to Fantia in using it as a platform for their writers. However its certainly received a lot of attention and one can expect they probably will make a Marina 4 or related sequel at some point now - simple because renewed interest means sales.

Per the Marina Fantia story, I subscribed and got the extra story CG. So the basic plot is they hook up with the guy we voted for (so far just a face in the background with one line of dialog) and Marina asks if Kenji is ok (that) she is sleeping with other men again. He of course says yes and it finishes with her having a secret she wants to reveal. Which will be next month's artwork panels.

Now obviously that secret is that she either A has been cheating on him (probably with Hiroto and I think thats why Hiroto was in the poll) or has missed NTR play, despite her early protests and is glad to be doing it again. Both seem very likely, but overall the story is happening so fast it doesn't really feel like Marina or Kenji, you could literally replace her in the pictures for any girl and it would work.

I'm always happy for for new Marina artwork though and I do truly suspect this will lead to some sequel, but the IF story here is so bland...well we might just end up being disappointed if a real sequel appears too unless they make the story more interesting.

Personally I kind of want a sequel featuring their daughter as a teenager on her own NTR adventure with her boyfriend, maybe he finds videos of Marina online and hopes her daughter will do the same netorase play with him? Then have Kenji/Marinas story continued in the background.

 

[mocha_cadence]

I wonder how long Atelier Sakura can reuse that same hotel background for. I guess at least it means they have a lot of games to resell once they decide to remaster everything.

Actually surprised this isn't really a thing considering how art is the #1 selling point for visual novels. I'm sure some of Key's older monster eyed abominations would look great drawn by today's artists. Then again it's probably a good thing they aren't being touched again. The moment visual novel remasters begin, that would spell the official contraction of the visual novel industry in Japan. The same pushback from games studios is what stops every older console and pc title in the West from being remastered.

 

[Redorc]

So as a writer myself unless your selling your product to make a profit, focus on the story that GETS TO YOU. Or turns you on. Or interests you. Especially for a first game, because that motivation will drive you through the development phase. If your making a game for other people, then making polls is great because your using it as a metric for what your audience wants but again - who and why are you making this game for?
Good luck!

This.

Especially, remember that any poll only represent what the forum here thinks, I've seen the most crude shitty cuckold stories being acclaimed as amazing in F95 for example.
Makes me think ntr is like any other fetish in that way: you learn to taste what's truly good way after the initial discovery.

 

[Light316]

This.

Especially, remember that any poll only represent what the forum here thinks, I've seen the most crude shitty cuckold stories being acclaimed as amazing in F95 for example.
Makes me think ntr is like any other fetish in that way: you learn to taste what's truly good way after the initial discovery.

Which is I'm glad that people in this forum know what the true essence of NTR. I don't dislike them but to think that majority of them discussing heavily on NTR topic without mentioning any of top Japanese work is quite amusing to think .

 

[Haicx]

Just finished this game:https://vndb.org/v20484.I love the artwork of this game so much, too bad the story is shit but the art is good enough for me to push through.

 

[Infidelisoft]

Released a new version of Building our Futature, my shemale NTR game.
https://www.patreon.com/infidelisoft

 

[niwaka]

New Atelier Sakura could have been good if it wasnt Atelier Sakura. The main idea isnt new but it makes sense. Seeing a glimpse of the wife with her hair down was good. But the overall execution is so bad, zero production values, so rushed it seems like the characters dont care about anything. The companys games sometimes have good moments still (淫らに堕ちる、最愛彼女 is interesting) but overall theyre such a disappointment.

BTW Venus updated again. Nao confirmed animation for hip sway and showed subtle eye animations too. He wanted to do animation for all the ejaculation too but had to give up since its very hard. Though he will still add them for the flowing liquid. 26/90(?) event CG painted now.

 

[Miraluka]

Reading the comments At-sakura game was quite lame and poor production on top. Wew

 

[MrSandman]

Yea AT Sakura should just die off. Like when you've made it, you can't just drop quality and expect to keep making it with your name alone. There hasn't been one good game from them in like 2+ years. They've had 1 or 2 decent games, but they're just funneling out low quality garbage for the most part.

 

[straight.shota]

Best of luck to you! Making a visual novel is really tough but it is always nice to see new creators pop up.

Thank you!

So as a writer myself unless your selling your product to make a profit, focus on the story that GETS TO YOU. Or turns you on. Or interests you. Especially for a first game, because that motivation will drive you through the development phase. If your making a game for other people, then making polls is great because your using it as a metric for what your audience wants but again - who and why are you making this game for?

With Marina I've literally gone through 4 scripts, only one of which really catered to diverging paths for every type of NTR fan. For example in one I had her totally become a cheat and throw it back in Kenji's face (because he started her on this path) and even another path where Marina lets Kenji fuck other women in front of her - yes both worked but these felt so out of place in my general story as to deserve their own games - which brings my point around to this - even a short game takes time and if your not enjoying the story your crafting it around your going to lose interest or become distracted by a project that is more "you". So focus on the story you want to tell, be damned if it pisses other people off and do that. Especially for a first game.

If I wanted to write a story/game where Kenji and Marina join an S&M club - and that idea pisses off a bunch of people does it really matter if they are all getting it for free? I would say focus in one that story and develop it as best you can, so even if they don't like the themes when they play it they can still say it was a GOOD story for the theme. And that theme needs to be something YOU want to work on. Again unless your trying to sell it for money, but most early developers like myself are just trying to get something done.

As for diverging paths, do what I did. Write your main story, if you SEE a point where the story could allow other options simply NOTE it at that point and continue writing the main story line and "true ending" (or as you see it). I didn't do this the first time, but learned my lesson from it, that by focusing on that central story it allows you to go back and better develop those other paths once you have the basic story finished. If you develop each little path as you go, your story will sprawl and by the end ir won't have a clear path forward. Or at least thats what I learned.

Now for the ending - my suggestion for NTR is write it first or what you want that ending to be. IF you want the ending to be "wife is fucking neighbor and never tells husband, husband enjoys knowing that she does this and knowing that he knows she doesn't know he knows (LOL) then you have the basic plot to which you develop your story to its end. For NTR plots this really DOES help a lot.

Good luck!

This.

Especially, remember that any poll only represent what the forum here thinks, I've seen the most crude shitty cuckold stories being acclaimed as amazing in F95 for example.
Makes me think ntr is like any other fetish in that way: you learn to taste what's truly good way after the initial discovery.

Thanks a lot for the advice from both of you. I really appreciate it. Actually I'm making this to for both: for myself (and all the fans of NTR) and to see if I can make some money to support myself. I've being in quarantine for month and a half now and things don't look promising. I'm a freelancer, so if I don't work I don't eat. I'm waiting for things to go to normal, but it doesn't seems it's gonna be the case any time soon (the government just announced another two weeks of quarantine). They started with two weeks, but more weeks have being added as time went by, so who knows if these two weeks are the last ones. And even if they are, things are not going to go back to normal immediately. I've been talking with some colleagues and it seems my field of work could be reactivating in september (maybe sooner, maybe later, who knows). So I'm pushed to look for another type of income (before things start to look ugly for me).

What Tentacle Bandit says about working through the routes seems right. One of my favorite developers (Rascou) does exactly that. Begins with one or two routes/endings and then adds more over time. So I think I should do the same. However I'll put my initial concept on hold and right now I'm going to do something much more simple. I'm going to make a short kinetic novel (no routes) with a time constraint of one week (in game). Of course I'll have not much time (in-game) to develop something very deep, but at least you will be able to have a quick glimpse of what I have to offer and I can practice my skills with the engine and tools I'm working with. As it's my first VN I don't expect it to be a masterpiece that blows everyone's mind, but at least I'll try to do something decent. So, look forward to it and once again, thanks a lot for your encouraging and advice.

 

[Infidelisoft]

If you need about $2.000,-- to live off per month less than 7% of adult game developers on Patreon makes that, and that's assuming you do everything yourself. It's hard to get reliable data on this, but a quick scan over those top 7% shows very little NTR stuff so it might be even lower for a niche market like NTR. If you do everything yourself a little extra pocket money might be possible, but making a living from it isn't common.

 

[Kaizoku]

So what happened to Marina 4 ?!

I think Sasaki is busy with Lune gacha game or something like that ! , I just hope that he will not stuck in gacha trash like Kagami with lilith's trash gacha

Sasaki mentioned before that Marina is one of his favorite works or something like that https://twitter.com/gentlesasaki/status/1123119802019532800

in my opinion Atelier Sakura's last good VN was Mariko 2 in november 2018 !

so yeah I agree that Atelier Sakura should focus on quality not quantity , 4 good VNs a year is better than 12 meh ones , and they can make longer VNs with more routes and endings .

Especially that they are usually working with the same artists , I think the artists themselves will make a better work if you give them more time , and yeah the more important is the writing , they should hire a better writer or at least stop hire the bad ones .
Even the good writers need enough time , for example Onborozuki is the writer of some good Atelier Sakura games like Marina and Mariko and other games , but he wrote meh ones also , and I think one of the reasons is the time , you can't expect that he can write a good VN every month .

 

[mocha_cadence]

Atelier Sakura have released a staggering 22 games in the past 24 months. It is unholy and commendable at the same time. Going further into the past or into the future releases doesn't break the cycle either. Once a year it seems they take two months to make a game. Once a century three months.

This is the last game they needed 3 months to make:

https://vndb.org/v23234

 

[Tentacle Bandit]

So what happened to Marina 4 ?!.

There was never actually a Marina 4, we assumed there was a new game because of how they announced a "Marina collaboration" with the website Fantia on twitter with a poll. However it wasn't for a game, they are using Fantia website to tell "what if" short stories (as in non-canon stories) by drawing an image and posting it to Fantia using fan favorite characters once per month. Marina just happened to be the first character for this. They are charging $5 per month to see the after "story" aspects of each picture. Thats all it is. We might get a new game but this wasn't it.

 

[Tentacle Bandit]

Atelier Sakura have released a staggering 22 games in the past 24 months. It is unholy and commendable at the same time. Going further into the past or into the future releases doesn't break the cycle either. Once a year it seems they take two months to make a game. Once a century three months.

This is the last game they needed 3 months to make:

https://vndb.org/v23234

There is no way they are writing stories, doing the artwork and recording all the audio in a month for each game, just following their twitter it clearly takes them a good month just to get the packaging produced and delivered. I don't know what their production schedule is like, but I do assume it is fast paced regardless and they probably just come up with a basic idea for a plot, write up three bland characters. Copy paste like a factory. I assume each game cycle is 3 months and each one overlaps. I could be totally wrong but the time it literally takes just to build everything into a graphic novel is very tedious trust me on this, its not a fast process even if you have it down to a science it simple just consumes a lot of time "building" the game.

 

[prettyflowers]

Is there any way to capture the actual mobile phone text in the new Hending game with a text hooker, or is it all images?

 

[mocha_cadence]

There is no way they are writing stories, doing the artwork and recording all the audio in a month for each game, just following their twitter it clearly takes them a good month just to get the packaging produced and delivered. I don't know what their production schedule is like, but I do assume it is fast paced regardless and they probably just come up with a basic idea for a plot, write up three bland characters. Copy paste like a factory. I assume each game cycle is 3 months and each one overlaps. I could be totally wrong but the time it literally takes just to build everything into a graphic novel is very tedious trust me on this, its not a fast process even if you have it down to a science it simple just consumes a lot of time "building" the game.

You are correct. Atelier Sakura produces three games at the same time. Each monthly release cycles between Zuka, Nakamori and Onborozuki as scenario writers.

Atelier Sakura is the eroge world's Call of Duty.

 

[Osni]

You either die a hero or live long enough to turn into Appetite

 

[cyberstein]

IS there VN or Manga like these?
MC expects to get a girlfriend but before he makes a move he found out the girl he likes/target already has a partner and the partner is the MC friend/another guy who MC thinks not better than MC himself or lower than MC himself.

Some kind like if MC quickly makes a move, he can get the girl but he is too late another guy or his friend gets the girl before MC.

https://exhentai.org/g/1477272/0f0742f500/
https://exhentai.org/g/1537300/02d0a3b113/ hope someone translate the second part.
https://exhentai.org/g/215597/ba58d3cdd8/ last ch.
https://exhentai.org/g/634436/b672940a14/

 

[Tentacle Bandit]

You are correct. Atelier Sakura produces three games at the same time. Each monthly release cycles between Zuka, Nakamori and Onborozuki as scenario writers.

Atelier Sakura is the eroge world's Call of Duty.

My brother and friends told me the latest Call of Duty games have been really good lol...maybe EA would be a better metaphor with their sport games?

 

[Animefan_09]

My brother and friends told me the latest Call of Duty games have been really good lol...maybe EA would be a better metaphor with their sport games?

Are they younger than you? I have noted that part of the problem is that as we get old we always compare the new to the old so is hard to feel somethign as a new experience (like i my little cousins love Black Clover while i just stopped reading it)

And guys what do you use to read hentai manga that you download? Lately i have downloaded more and more but i want something that lets me read it like in exhentai or nhentai (using the arrow keys to move up/downa nd to the next page) and has the page to their original size or let me adjust it to a predetermined one.

 

[Light316]

And guys what do you use to read hentai manga that you download? Lately i have downloaded more and more but i want something that lets me read it like in exhentai or nhentai (using the arrow keys to move up/downa nd to the next page) and has the page to their original size or let me adjust it to a predetermined one.

I'm using Fast Stone Image Viewer. There's an option to let you to auto lock zoom image based on your preference every time you open the image. There's also Irfanview btw.

 

[mocha_cadence]

Out of curiosity for what Atelier Sakura's production schedule could look like I decided to learn more about the costs and production timetables involved with making eroges. Here is the most interesting blog I found regarding this so far, detailing expenses including rent and manufacturing.

https://anond.hatelabo.jp/20100527083405

This article uses a typical story-driven major harem release with 5 heroines and 10 sub-characters at full price to determine the schedule and costs.

A 15 month production schedule can look like this:

Planning (1 to 2 months) → Scenario/character design (3 to 7 months) → CG, sound, and movement (6 to 9 months) → Scripting and direction (2 to 3 months) → Debugging (1 month) → Master up! →Manufacture (2 weeks) → Release☆

After planning, everything occurs at the same time, from story to scripting to art to sound design. CG events are the last assets to be completed. Project management complexity will kill a director if they are not prepared, ending the hopes of many visual novels in both Japan and the West.

If we crudely divide these numbers with a 3 month release by Atelier Sakura, what this means is that their production workflow looks like this:

Planning (6 days) → Scenario/character design (18 days to 42 days) → CG, sound, and movement (36 days to 54 days) → Scripting and direction (12 days to 18 days) → Debugging (6 days) → Master up! →Manufacture (2 weeks) → Release☆

Actually as I have kept the manufacture date unchanged it means all the above numbers should be even smaller. It is also likely that for nukiges with minimal story, there would be a wider difference between time requirements for scenario and art.