Debate about mod reuse and credits

[Aastaroth]

(snip)
[Update 12.09.2016]
+ Add plugins support.
+ Add plugin GgmodForHS.
+ Add highheel shoes of ggmod.
+ Add simple cheat menu in game.
(snip)

Apparently I have missed this post yesterday... but please, excuse me.

I appreciate your help on the matter but it would be better to ask original author mayar1 first :)
(or you can ask me to contact him, since I helped him making a few pair of shoes)
I think this is how we show mutual respect and avoid duplication of effort.

mayar1 is actually working on GGmod.
I have helped him fixing the purple shader bug for the shoes. Also re-structured the abdata folder and their contents.
Tested and everything is fine in the main game, but I still have to wait for him to fix the studio scene so GGmod won't be released yet.

 

[Aastaroth]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

(snip)
[Update 12.09.2016]
+ Add plugins support.
+ Add plugin GgmodForHS.
+ Add highheel shoes of ggmod.
+ Add simple cheat menu in game.
(snip)

Dear Un1imit3d,

I have discussed with mayar1 regarding the GGmod matter and he is very, very furious about that.

Here is what mayar1 wants to tell you:

PLEASE DETELE this GGmod, which is decompiled from the .dll file of HS trial version. That .dll file is used for HS trial version only, so it contains a lot of bugs and I am currently developing GGmod for the use of HS official release.

It is also an improper behaviour to decompile my work and recompile it yourself. I am not going to release GGmod in the future, if you do not remove GGmod from your file.

We all understand that cracking the illusion game is doing good for the community, but every modder has their own rules of re-posting their works and this must be respected.
mayar1 is an active modder and I can understand why he is so angry when his work is taken away and edited without even acknowledging him. Please take my words seriously.

Regards,

Aastaroth

 

[Ram-0-Ram]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

Dear Un1imit3d,

As much as I appreciate you are working hard on translation part for HoneySelect. But there are few things in your post that has become a recent problematic for others. The Plugins, GGmod and Highheels belong to other modders and they are already released in HS Mods Release Thread in HongFire.

For what Aastaroth said is true that every modders have certain rules of re-posting their mods. Now things have changed since the full game released and modders went back to their drawing boards making new release that should work on full version smoothly without any problems. What you have done now without realizing is that you have taken their "Work Time". If it's an honest mistake, it's okay. You can make it up by removing these posts marked in "red". I am unsure of the Cheat menu if it's your work you can keep that but if it's belong to someone else then you also have to remove that too.

Hope understand, as other appreciate your work you should also show your respect to them.

Regards

 

[akyryz]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

Dear Un1imit3d,

As much as I appreciate you are working hard on translation part for HoneySelect. But there are few things in your post that has become a recent problematic for others. The Plugins, GGmod and Highheels belong to other modders and they are already released in HS Mods Release Thread in HongFire.

For what Aastaroth said is true that every modders have certain rules of re-posting their mods. Now things have changed since the full game released and modders went back to their drawing boards making new release that should work on full version smoothly without any problems. What you have done now without realizing is that you have taken their "Work Time". If it's an honest mistake, it's okay. You can make it up by removing these posts marked in "red". I am unsure of the Cheat menu if it's your work you can keep that but if it's belong to someone else then you also have to remove that too.

Hope understand, as other appreciate your work you should also show your respect to them.

Regards

psymon2 vs Un1imit3d

what are the odds ?

where are the credits?

 

[Aastaroth]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

psymon2 vs Un1imit3d

what are the odds ?

View attachment 12218

where are the credits?

@Un1imit3d

Just as akyryz have said, you didn't even do proper credits in translation.
I really hope that you can understand how mutual respect is really important for a mod community to thrive.
Credits/asks for permission is some proper manner to show how you respect other modder's work, and to gain respect from them.

Nobody wants to mod anymore if people are just testing or even passing others' limits.
You were not getting over akyryz's limit, but then you are getting over mayar1's.
Does that do for a mod community? No it isn't.

Please think twice before you are doing something on top of other people's work. Thanks.

 

[Un1imit3d]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

I do not pretend to any credits, i make what i make. For me not matter credits or rights, for me main thing end result. I use images from other translation and use for self. I DO NOT FORCE EVERYBODY use my mod. I upload and share for any that what i'm created. Credits or rights not metter for me because ONLY I HAVE SOURCE CODE OF MY MOD WRITTEN BY ME.
(I not decompile any plugins, only MSIL correcting for use)
plugin system i insert (temporary) only for support GGMod plugin (AGAIN FOR SELF).
Because i know current (for trial version of plugin system very STUPID).
Basic mono functions (Update, LateUpdate) is not good for normal Plugins Framework.
TRY LOOK MOD: OXIDE (this really best plugin system for any Unity GAME) with open-source code (support plugins based on JavaScript, C#, Python, Lua).
But i not use it because i use my hooks and my Invoker interface in my uEngine Framework.


PS: If anyone want, all rights and credits owned Aastaroth, foxxyswords, mayar1 and all who make anything for help with translate interface. Its important for me.
I was very surprised by the fact that many do not understand it all. And every moder begins to get nervous when his idea or part of the work that used to do better for everyone.
If you not understand my idea and what i want tell. Do not use anything created by me. Ignore me! :)

 

[Aastaroth]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

I do not pretend to any credits, i make what i make. For me not matter credits or rights, for me main thing end result. I use images from other translation and use for self. I DO NOT FORCE EVERYBODY use my mod. I upload and share for any that what i'm created. Credits or rights not metter for me because ONLY I HAVE SOURCE CODE OF MY MOD WRITTEN BY ME.
(I not decompile any plugins, only MSIL correcting for use)
plugin system i insert (temporary) only for support GGMod plugin (AGAIN FOR SELF).
Because i know current (for trial version of plugin system very STUPID).
Basic mono functions (Update, LateUpdate) is not good for normal Plugins Framework.
TRY LOOK MOD: OXIDE (this really best plugin system for any Unity GAME).
But i not use it because i use my hooks and my Invoker interface in my uEngine Framework.


PS: If anyone want, all rights and credits owned Aastaroth, foxxyswords, mayar1 and all who make anything for help with translate interface. Its important for me.
I was very surprised by the fact that many do not understand it all. And every moder begins to get nervous when his idea or part of the work that used to do better for everyone.
If you not understand my idea and what i want tell. Do not use anything created by me. Ignore me! :)

Can't you understand that everyone has their own rules for re-posting their works? I personally don't even care what you are doing with my mods, and I don't think akyryz care that much. But not everyone in the mod community take it so lightly. mayar1 really cares for his work because he spends lots of time doing it. It may not be a perfect plugin and can be improved, but still it is his own work.

You seems to be result-oriented which I can respect on it, but if you really know how to improve the plugin, can't you drop a message to the author first before doing so? Improvement is good, but others' feeling have to be considered as well. It is alright if you are doing for your own, and nobody would complain on you. BUT, releasing it to the public is another matter.

Not only just some modders would be unhappy about this, but it also creates confusion. Take your edited GGmod as an example. You are putting the .dll inside uEngine/Plugins folder, while mayar1 isn't. mayar1's GGmod uses cracked Assembly-Csharp.dll while yours isn't. So who should people adapt to? Turns out people get crashes from the game and end up people going back to complain. But if you have EVER communicated with the author, those incompatibility can be solved, or at lease minimized. Collective efforts may even make a better product too. If the author doesn't need any help, then it is still his own choice. You can crack the hell out of his work, but please, keep your toy in the drawer.

TLDR: It is not credit or rights matter, but RESPECT. Different people have different limits, and when you crossed the line, you are doing no good by harm.
Take others' feeling into account, please. Since mayar1 clearly doesn't like this, can you please stop sharing your edited GGmod and just keep it for your own use. I am not sure how you used others work, but asking them first before the release isn't something hard either. If modders refuse your effort, don't release your work.

 

[Un1imit3d]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

Can't you understand that everyone has their own rules for re-posting their works? I personally don't even care what you are doing with my mods, and I don't think akyryz care that much. But not everyone in the mod community take it so lightly. mayar1 really cares for his work because he spends lots of time doing it. It may not be a perfect plugin and can be improved, but still it is his own work.

You seems to be result-oriented which I can respect on it, but if you really know how to improve the plugin, can't you drop a message to the author first before doing so? Improvement is good, but others' feeling have to be considered as well. It is alright if you are doing for your own, and nobody would complain on you. BUT, releasing it to the public is another matter.

Not only just some modders would be unhappy about this, but it also creates confusion. Take your edited GGmod as an example. You are putting the .dll inside uEngine/Plugins folder, while mayar1 isn't. mayar1's GGmod uses cracked Assembly-Csharp.dll while yours isn't. So who should people adapt to? Turns out people get crashes from the game and end up people going back to complain. But if you have EVER communicated with the author, those incompatibility can be solved, or at lease minimized. Collective efforts may even make a better product too. If the author doesn't need any help, then it is still his own choice. You can crack the hell out of his work, but please, keep your toy in the drawer.

TLDR: It is not credit or rights matter, but RESPECT. Different people have different limits, and when you crossed the line, you are doing no good by harm.
Take others' feeling into account, please. Since mayar1 clearly doesn't like this, can you please stop sharing your edited GGmod and just keep it for your own use. I am not sure how you used others work, but asking them first before the release isn't something hard either. If modders refuse your effort, don't release your work.

One question: You asks Illusion about rights to modify images for translate?
Illusion have all rights to all game resources, you can't have any rights to all images. If you modify image, you violated the rights of Illusion, beyond that you have no rights and have no right to speak in this direction.

 

[akyryz]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

you don't get it, pal? you are entering in a community that does exactly what you said and we respect our members.
if you want to disrespect the community, you are on your own here.
then go and create your own website, and share wherever you want there but not here!

 

[Un1imit3d]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

you don't get it, pal? you are entering in a community that does exactly what you said and we respect our members.
if you want to disrespect the community, you are on your own here.
then go and create your own website, and share wherever you want there but not here!

Not I started this thread. I only use in my mod images translation of other authors for end-users. Because translated images can't work without mod, and any Mod a nothing without translated images.
A lot of users have problems associated with collecting mods (separatly UI Translation framework, separatly images, separatly text and etc.). You modding community for end-users? or i'm wrong, and all demands respect to self only and work for respect? if i right, it very funny.

Make watermarks on images. If you want. But it all not matter for end-user.

PS: I not want continue this thread. Write to me in PM if you are a fighter for the rights.

 

[Ram-0-Ram]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

One question: You asks Illusion about rights to modify images for translate?
Illusion have all rights to all game resources, you can't have any rights to all images. If you modify image, you violated the rights of Illusion, beyond that you have no rights and have no right to speak in this direction.

This kind of question turns around and bite you in the @$$ too, mate. We only told you that you have killed their "work time" which they are already working it for this full version game.

Similar Question:
Have you ask Mayar1 about the rights to modify his plugins? Mayar1 has all the rights over his plugins and sources. Modifying his work you actually damaged the rights of his plugins. You also don't have no right to speak in this direction too.
"What comes around goes around....."

 

[Un1imit3d]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

Have you ask Mayar1 about the rights to modify his plugins? Mayar1 has all the rights over his plugins and sources. Modifying his work you actually damaged the rights of his plugins. You also don't have no right to speak in this direction too.
"What comes around goes around....."

No, but i not saying anything about rights.
And Mayar1 not ask Illusion about change transform component of game.
PS: I can for 2-3 hours write code in my mod for change foot direction on female characters, it's not problem for me, but I now doing other things. May be later because it not my first priority.

Or maybe need use idea of GGmod for create clone of script to change foot direction? it's too can damage rights? or not? I can make it very fast now =)
But i not make it, i try save rights of Gmod creator from a beginning. But you not see this.

 

[Ram-0-Ram]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

Sure... Sure.... I completely understand what are you trying to say.......... I rest my case and will continue no further...

*Cough**Cough*double-standard*Cough**Cough*

 

[Aastaroth]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

One question: You asks Illusion about rights to modify images for translate?
Illusion have all rights to all game resources, you can't have any rights to all images. If you modify image, you violated the rights of Illusion, beyond that you have no rights and have no right to speak in this direction.

Yes we clearly have no right to mod illusion's assets. That doesn't give you the reason not to hear any modders' wish when you are using their works.

If illusion is an enemy that we have to fight with, then modders are our allies which help the country (the community) to win the battle. You may not care any feelings about your enemy, but if you want your allies to fight with you, then you have to listen to what you allies want, right? This is how community works. People have similar visions (even when it is morally incorrect) help each other to achieve the target. Just because you killed your enemy, doesn't give you the right to strike on your allies. You can do the strike, but then you are going to be expelled from the army.

 

[Un1imit3d]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

Yes we clearly have no right to mod illusion's assets. That doesn't give you the reason not to hear any modders' wish when you are using their works.

If illusion is an enemy that we have to fight with, then modders are our allies which help the country (the community) to win the battle. You may not care any feelings about your enemy, but if you want your allies to fight with you, then you have to listen to what you allies want, right? This is how community works. People have similar visions (even when it is morally incorrect) help each other to achieve the target. Just because you killed your enemy, doesn't give you the right to strike on your allies. You can do the strike, but then you are going to be expelled from the army.

I not have enemies and allies, i make mod for end-users only with use shared resources. (shared - open for all). If author share his work (then author give resources free for all), I tell thanks and get resources if me need.
Other not matter for me.

PS: What do you want from me? Comments in post or comments in archive?
Thanks to A for resource.
Thanks to B for resource.
Thanks to C for resource.
You will happy from it? Its all what do you want from life?

I not commenting images of others authors to my name. I'm not assign someone else's work. I only use shared resources in my mod only.

I know what resources of what author i use! Author can know about using his resource in my mod.
But user for end-user not matter it.

 

[GIL★ギル]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

...If author share his work (then author give resources free for all), I tell thanks and get resources if me need.
Other not matter for me.

That's not how we do things in this modding community, товарищ. It's proper etiquette to credit your original source, at the very least. Stepping on other modder's work using their resources in the same game is considered very disrespectful. We get it tho, end users don't care. But we do.

You've been kindly asked by the original author to take down the claimed parts of your work until this can be settled. Please comply. And next time, just 30 seconds of your time spent on a PM can save everyone a lot of trouble.

I suggest you contact the orignal author privately to see how this could be resolved, and spare this thread the drama.

 

[Aastaroth]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

I not have enemies and allies, i make mod for end-users only with use shared resources. (shared - open for all). If author share his work (then author give resources free for all), I tell thanks and get resources if me need.
Other not matter for me.

PS: What do you want from me? Comments in post or comments in archive?
Thanks to A for resource.
Thanks to B for resource.
Thanks to C for resource.
You will happy from it? Its all what do you want from life?

I not commenting images of others authors to my name. I'm not assign someone else's work. I only use shared resources in my mod only.

I know what resources of what author i use! Author can know about using his resource in my mod.
But user for end-user not matter it.

Do you know Hongfire patches have tons of modders' name recognizing which mod is done by who?
Why they have to do this? Simply because all modders would be unhappy when they couldn't see that little name on the page?

No, it is a form of gratitude, showing that you are thankful for their efforts.
They spend their time doing it and deserves to be recognized.
Modder may or may not need this. End users mostly likely don't read this. But a community without proper crediting usually ends up with full of conflicts.
I saw a lot of cases where people do not respect modders' choice and end up they are not publishing mods. Only people suffered, nobody is benefited.
That's why I keep say respect, from time to time.

People usually credited on the threads/posts but the form is not important. The action itself speaks louder.
Somebody told me that he is going to credit me and I didn't even bother to read the thread to check where the credit is.
Because I know that he is thankful to me, he respects me. This is always the most important thing.

I don't need those credits to fulfill my life. I would not be spending so much time talking to you if this is only my mod, but I am speaking for my friend mayar1, and he clearly have different views from me.
At least you have removed the post so I am grateful about that :)

You can have no allies. But if you are inside a community, you have to follow the norms and rules, or else you are just creating enemies yourselves.
End up you have to do everything your own. If you wish to do so, please keep it your own, as I have said.
When you play the game, you follow the rules. If you don't like the rules, don't play it. Simple as that.

 

[enimaroah]

Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

Any modder can say that he wants to maintain his mod and he can say that he doesn't want it republished without his consent.

One of our rules we wanted to have was to accept and obey this in order to get respect and good relationship to other modders. Rules when releasing/submitting a mod

I would bid to take down such a mod, or remove the violating part.