Decreasing Quality of Anime/Eroge???

[Joyjason]

So, having exposed to eroge and anime for several years now, I've realized rather early on that the quality of eroge and anime have been decreasing rapidly.

The eroge market isn't as obvious to this trend, so I'm really talking about the anime industry.

DISCLAIMER: As I write this post, I beg for your understanding that I have not viewed any new anime series that started 3-4 months ago. If I have "missed a very good series", please correct me as necessary.

When I talk about quality, I mean the inclusion of perhaps one or more of the following:

1) They are often based on something else (aka, perhaps an already-existant LN and not original)
2) Unnecessary Fanservice
3) No Theme
4) Repetitive Events throughout the entire series

I make this post in an effort to learn of what other individuals think. In your experience, is "anime becoming crappier" as time goes on?


This is the same for the eroge companies as well, as I can often see that many titles contain the latter three factors I listed above (along with stereotypical characters). As an avid player, this really causes me distraught, and the only thing I can do are find older titles which alleviate my pain to a certain extent.

Anime has failed to do this for me, as there are only so many titles I would consider "Holy-crap awesome" (e.g. Key titles) series, and even the titles I had hope for recently have been turning out rather sloppy (Mashiroiro Symphony). Adding salt to the wound, various individuals have been overrating some series so much, that I not only began to hate the series, but also had the sarcastic notion that "character death" is probably one of the elements producers can utilize in their series to make some quick buck off of unsuspecting viewers in terms of merchandise (Then I was about to write a one-page satire about it too).


Many of the members reading this will have similar (if not more) experience than me when it comes to eroge and anime. I'd like to hear your "incentive" (because I can't think of a better term) for continuing to watch anime series (because as I've mentioned in the disclaimer, I refuse to watch any new series in general).

I still find that eroge is a good form of entertainment for me, and every couple of month or so, there's always that one new title that ends up to be very good (and thus given the label "kamige"). This is the only hope that I hold as I watch for new announcements and wait for new series (like Sakutoki).

tl;dr
Anime/Eroge are getting crappier, and I want to know what keeps you all from watching/reading them, as well as your own opinions on my "theory".

Any genuine reply is greatly appreciated.

 

[FinalPyre]

When you first get into something, it is much more common for things to seem new and exciting, and after a while that will wear off. There are a lot of articles you can read, if you search them up, about how things seem to get crappier as they go on (music, tv, etc.). In general, it normally isn't the case: you simply become more aware of the crap as you become more aware of the subject, and you become more aware of reoccurring themes because you have seen increasing proportions of previous materials.

As for your points:
Large production things are, and have always been, more commonly based off of something else, because it is a larger production and if you lose money, you lose a lot more. It is always safer to start with an established fan base.
Fanservice has always been around. Some people like it, some don't (myself in the latter). It is probably a bit more noticeable/explicit now because things are more liberal these days.
Not sure what you mean by theme. Something like "we can win with the power of friendship"? Most of the time I would rather be spared. XD
Repetitive events... hmm. Like a running gag? Or solving a problem in a similar way? Perhaps the cycle of new villains, or powering up in a battle, in shonen material?

 

[axtc]

When you first get into something, it is much more common for things to seem new and exciting, and after a while that will wear off. There are a lot of articles you can read, if you search them up, about how things seem to get crappier as they go on (music, tv, etc.). In general, it normally isn't the case: you simply become more aware of the crap as you become more aware of the subject, and you become more aware of reoccurring themes because you have seen increasing proportions of previous materials.

I have nothing to contribute, but I wanted to say I've never thought of it that way. It makes sense that we grow as a cultivated audience, yet new stuff don't grow to tailor to those new to the media.

 

[pichu655889]

I don't play too many eroge so i can't comment on that, but I feel it depends on what one looks for when one watches anime.

As long as I get a good laugh out of watching the anime I don't really mind how bad the story is. Of course jokes can get old but at the moment I still find anime entertaining enough to watch.

Of course I can see how recent works might bug someone who cares about the plot more; Many works have cliché elements and sometimes do not feel original.

 

[pingtoryan]

Once a formula that earns is discovered, those who are out for money are likely to stick to that formula...a variation of Blockbuster mentality...as I see it.

IMO, if I want ecchi, I'll just go play eroge or watch H anime - those [excessive fanservice] do not belong on the world of normal anime. Eroges are home to those stuff, so it does not affect things much, if at all.

I quitted anime almost entirely after SRWOG2 and Marimite Season 4...finding enjoyment in going through eroge (crisper picture, among other things) If you count them as anime, I still somewhat follow H-anime as they come out. But the overall reason why I quitted anime is more on that "eroges are much more fulfilling compared to anime", which I doubt I can explain it in simpler terms.

A disclaimer: I usually don't give a dang about plot...because I butcher and mess them up into something else as I go anyway in most cases. I have fun taking things as I go, not for overall plot more often than not. Call me tasteless, but I'm just that way.

Also, define "no theme". I don't understand this one bit, at all.

 

[WsE]

It hasn't become worse, you've just become more picky. This is bound to happen and can be related to everything in life. Too much of anything will make said thing boring/lame/yadayada. How long it takes for all of us is an individual thing, though.

 

[Joyjason]

Thanks for all the inputs!

As with axtc, I've also never thought about "me becoming more picky".

But as I agree with the above comments almost 100%, I still have a defense;
Why is it that I always find good "old" series? As an example, my review blog's latest posts involve two games, the Noesis series and a title called "Sekai de ichiban dame na koi". Despite how "old" these games are (2010 and 2007 if my memory serves), I enjoyed these two thoroughly.

Noesis is suspense, and I've definitely seen suspense in more than one way. What I really liked about it was the philosophy that was embedded in much of the plot, as well as a unique humor. It's not even voiced for goodness sake, and was supposed to be a "bonus" for its success of the light novel.
Damekoi is one of those "slice of life" games, where you see multiple characters interacting and also contains one of the elements that I don't like (refer to "No Theme" below), but it manages to create drama and heartwarming story that I found very pleasing to read. (And the scenario writers are also the ones who wrote WA2)

If I had become more "picky", I would label these games trashy because it doesn't have my favorite artists, high quality music or CG, widescreen, and the list goes on and on! Of course, you could have used the word "picky" in a very broad sense that I'd become conscious about certain titles due to SOME ELEMENT (which in my case, is "story"), but I would then have to disagree and mention that from the very first day I touched my first eroge (Shuffle), I knew it was crappy and there were more, better titles out there available to me.

It's not like all "new" games are bad, either. Komorebi no Nostalgica was a relatively recent title that I, as well as other individuals, found worth the time. I'm sure there are more "kamige" that I haven't played due to school.

In addition, when you take a look at famous eroge companies that have previously created what's determined to be a good game (such as Palette: Mashiroiro Symphony, Whirlpool: Suzukaze no Melt, LoS: Tayutama), they also have this same "reduction" of quality. All the companies have the rising trend of "knowing what the audience wants" in the beginning, and have a climax with those elements with the kamige titles I've mentioned just now, but then fall rapidly as they focus on something else and lose that balance.


Regarding "No Theme", I apologize that I used my own terms. What I really mean by that is that the theme is utilized too much to the point that anime (or eroge for that matter) is then associated with that particular theme.
As an example, many series of anime describes the lifestyle (realistic or fictional) of a male surrounded by "apparently" unique and (or at least) beautiful females. This "harem" situation continues for several episodes until some series end with the protagonist hooking up with a heroine, or keeping the status quo.
While I really have no problem with the above statement (as contradictory as it sounds), I really hate it when the heroines become affectionate for the protagonist for the smallest goddamn reasons. When you have all those "smallest goddamn reasons" happening at the same time, you have something we commonly call "bs".
What's a "smallest goddamn reason"? I think everyone here would be intelligent enough to figure that out by themselves.

Now, there are obviously exceptions that do not have the "implied theme of romance" such as Madoka, but as I say for those titles in return, they're overrated by who I like to call "weeaboos" (Note that I use this term to describe ANYONE excessively infatuated with a title or series, but fail to explain why that series is so good or why he likes it. So if you can't tell me why you like SAO, Madoka, or even Shingeki, then you're a weeaboo in my eyes), that I just begin to hate the title for some reason (as stated in original post).


In essence, there is definitely the trait of me becoming more and more picky (as shown with the fact that I will rarely play chara-ge). However, I believe that's not the only reason, because as far as I'm concerned, my average rating for games released on certain years is slowly going down, and I see a lot less translations going on (which suggests the quality of the game), and I'm sure it's because of something other than the fact that groups can't hack it, or do not have the time to do so.

 

[pingtoryan]

Let me be brutally honest with you here...my words would be that your standards are way too high...that, or my own standards are way too low that I fail to comprehend your view. I had met someone elsewhere...a good companion, but disses just about anything when it comes to creative works...I could never understand him.

I've went through your blog...and now I know...I had never been playing eroge for story. In fact, I collect everything I can collect before I even start. Admittedly, participating myself in the story actually make me feel alive. Screw story, I have fun 'playing' the protagonist. That's how I enjoy eroges that I've really played thus far (including one you had completely and totally dissed), and it works. But alas, I never have much literary knowledge to define what is good and what is bad. Still, I'd rather remain barbaric but free than be civilized but herded.

...or I am just the "go with the flow" guy. Never asking for anything, just be happy with whatever is at hand and cope with whatever that is lacking.

 

[Joyjason]

Let me be brutally honest with you here...my words would be that your standards are way too high...that, or my own standards are way too low that I fail to comprehend your view. I had met someone elsewhere...a good companion, but disses just about anything when it comes to creative works...I could never understand him.

I've went through your blog...and now I know...I had never been playing eroge for story. In fact, I collect everything I can collect before I even start. Admittedly, participating myself in the story actually make me feel alive. Screw story, I have fun 'playing' the protagonist. That's how I enjoy eroges that I've really played thus far (including one you had completely and totally dissed), and it works. But alas, I never have much literary knowledge to define what is good and what is bad. Still, I'd rather remain barbaric but free than be civilized but herded.

...or I am just the "go with the flow" guy. Never asking for anything, just be happy with whatever is at hand and cope with whatever that is lacking.

[MENTION=21095]pingtoryan[/MENTION]

Awesome analysis, and I thank you very much for sharing.
I love this forum since I can learn about others' points of view, and I realize that when it comes to "playing a game", I see that despite the lack of interaction in an eroge, there's still more than one way to enjoy it.

As you've stated, my standards have definitely sky-rocketed. It's kinda like how if someone has sex while taking ecstasy, the person won't feel the same pleasure from sex. In my situation, I've seen most of the "kamige", so everything pales in comparison to those titles. Really, everything is comparative in life; someone living in Florida might say "It's cold here" when they come to Virginia, but someone coming from New York might complain that Virginia is "too hot".

But aside from that, why is it that I still see a trend of decreasing quality in games as time goes by? Even as my standards rise like mad, I still find old games to be very good (such as DameKoi as I've described in the second post, which was released in 2007, but I haven't gotten to it until last month!)
That's why I made the conclusion: "Oh, game producers are now losing the balance of what should be within an eroge". Why and how is a different story; I'm just hoping to confirm my aforementioned conclusion.

Now I'm very curious to how you "enjoy" these titles, so I hope you don't mind using the mention feature on you, and asking some questions.
1) What do you do if the protagonist has a personality so contradictory to yours? Do you still "imagine" yourself as him? (aka, you might not be perverted, but the protagonist is relatively liberal with sexual topics).
2) How about times when there are choice options that make it seem as if the player is omniscient? (Like some games that will have you choose between locations, with the corresponding heroine sprites next to them)
3) Do you think that just by spending a few days to weeks with a heroine, they'll feel affection for you and vice versa?
4) How about background story? How far do you "integrate" yourself with the protagonist?

The only reason why I question you with these is because I'm the type of person who will say "Keep eroge separate from reality", and cannot completely understand your own thought processes. I keep this entertainment as a hobby, so eroge is more like reading a book to me, while you might correspond yourself with characters within the book, primarily the protagonist. Your method is definitely more "fun" and appealing, but the negative aspects are that you are still limited to the text displayed on the screen.

 

[wehasband]

0

Well, everyone has their own standards/tastes/feelings(tm) about the media we are immersed in currently. What some people might refer to as 'being picky' could be an indication of cultural refinement to others. Jjason is past that part seeing eroge as erotic cg with voice acting or seeing anime beyond 'cute' characters and denpa songs in their soundtracks. This is good because you are one step into knowing yourself better and bad if you find digging through tons of material for the treasure a waste of time. I'm not one for positive thinking myself, but there are times that looking forward has gotten me through bad times. To add, I believe the word kamige differs from person to person and is relative to their standards, and certain elements in the game.. Social media takes care of the rest with their numbers to put that 'best game evar' tag which helps sales.

Which brings me to the next issue. I haven't checked the numbers myself, but I'm seeing more content today than, say 6 years ago. Quality will naturally suffer when most of the publishers stick to the trusted formulas (this is an industry after all, everyone needs to get paid). I would be one of the people who look forward to a book/manga/scribble getting the anime treatment. There's this thrill in waiting to see if your expectations will be met. That's why I find trying new stuff, shows that are 'original' to be difficult. I need foreplay, to invest a little of my time in learning about something before seeing it in all its glory. A drama cd here, illustrations there etc. I have mixed feelings about eroge/games getting the anime treatment though. Lately its been full of heroines who throw themselves at the protagonist at the slight provocation, like Jjason said. You also have to remember games are involve more immersion than anime. I guess that's true for anything else that isn't a 20-minute,12-episode show.

I'm all about character. It might just be the place I live in, but most of the people I know (both real-life and in fiction) are part of the communal mass. They're not clones per se but somewhere close enough. More like, they live in the last epoch where drama is lots of crying and love is about contributing to the human population. I'd trade all that for this girl who keeps on trying her best everyday, even if nothing really works out in the end..

I had met someone elsewhere...a good companion, but disses just about anything when it comes to creative works...I could never understand him.

I also know someone who is like that. He's not a bad guy though, he just hides his expectations behind a wall of cynism. Anything unfamiliar is held at arm's length. His first words spoken to me where, "Stay where I can see you"

To end this wall, I would also like to add that in regards to reading a book and playing a game, there is an amount of immersion required to enjoy them. Whether you see yourself as a character, drawing similarities between personal and contrived experiences or just enjoying the story as a spectator, there has to be a part of you involved.

Are all translated eroge good?

 

[Joyjason]

Thank you for your reply, wehasband.

Reading your comment gives yet ANOTHER view when determining the "quality" of anime and games, so I'll keep your theory well tucked in my mind for future reference. Thanks!

I'm also glad that there's someone giving me confirmation that it's not just me when it comes to decreasing quality of recent titles. You've mentioned the number (quantity) of titles compared to before has risen, and that's definitely one of the reasons of "why" the quality of these series or titles have been decreasing.

Despite this, I have to call "doubt" on the fact that kamige definition is variant for individuals.
kamige is a very rare tag provided to only the highest quality games that often exceed the reader's expectations on the overall story and game design. Because of this, the players with a good sense of what a "kamige" should be will use it rarely and effectively (as "kamige" (on average) seems to appear once in 50 non-nukige titles I play).
Simply put, a player who hasn't even played 50 non-nukige titles to finish will be unable to even define what a "kamige" is, nor have any idea what it feels like.

Kamige is a game that makes the reader want to come back. It's a series of storyline that is both funny and heartwarming to leave an impression. It's like a book that leaves great impact on you with its morals and themes. It's NOT equivalent to what Getchu labels as "the Best Game" (although the kamige I--as well as other regular eroge players--describe is always marked with it)

tl;dr--kamige is labeled as such because a large majority of the "experienced" players will be able to agree on its quality. If it's used in any other sense, it's just another individual without extensive knowledge using it to describe games like Shuffle.

---

Lastly, to answer your question, "Are all translated eroge good?", I have mixed feelings of them.
When it comes to translators like MangaGamer (MG), they are extremely poor with translations (as seen with various games like Shuffle or DC), and I would highly recommend each title's untranslated (if at all possible) version instead.
On the other hand, many of the fan-translators are very competent and provide great translations. Despite this, their impact is small.

Personally, none of the games which I would call a "kamige" has been translated. One is being translated, but even that's taking very long. Most translation projects get halted frequently and for a long time because the translators themselves have stuff they should be doing in real life.

Generally speaking, if you asked me for my opinions on translations, I would say that I hate them; it's faster and more effective (as well as possibly even more enjoyable) if you learned Japanese yourself. Obviously, no one has time for that (insert the meme here), so while I don't press that opinion on anyone, I still release my hate on individuals who ignorantly ask for an English patch without any knowledge of its status.

However, it is always implied that translated titles are better than others, since someone actually spent time and resources hacking into the game/buying its licence and translating the entire thing. (But remember that this is all relative, and there are always better games)

Before I became fluent in Japanese, I also played English-translated games, and I only remember a few that's really worth your time--Ever17 and the Sharin no Kuni series. Others, the translations suck (note that I don't say that the game sucks--the games are decent; translations suck)

I hope I answered your question. If I failed to do so, please elaborate and I'll do my best to retry.

 

[pingtoryan]

[MENTION=21095]pingtoryan[/MENTION]


Now I'm very curious to how you "enjoy" these titles, so I hope you don't mind using the mention feature on you, and asking some questions.
1) What do you do if the protagonist has a personality so contradictory to yours? Do you still "imagine" yourself as him? (aka, you might not be perverted, but the protagonist is relatively liberal with sexual topics).
2) How about times when there are choice options that make it seem as if the player is omniscient? (Like some games that will have you choose between locations, with the corresponding heroine sprites next to them)
3) Do you think that just by spending a few days to weeks with a heroine, they'll feel affection for you and vice versa?
4) How about background story? How far do you "integrate" yourself with the protagonist?

The only reason why I question you with these is because I'm the type of person who will say "Keep eroge separate from reality", and cannot completely understand your own thought processes. I keep this entertainment as a hobby, so eroge is more like reading a book to me, while you might correspond yourself with characters within the book, primarily the protagonist. Your method is definitely more "fun" and appealing, but the negative aspects are that you are still limited to the text displayed on the screen.

My reply is as follow:
1).I usually avoid the gruesome stuff (I hate 'em) in the first place. If I really happen to walk into one (e.g. Oni Chichi series, I watched the anime then found the game, and guess what I saw.) I just dig the necessary stuff out and walk away. I don't usually have the problem you mentioned, though. I usually can adapt to different personalities no problem (and even throwing in some out-of-character moment to keep stress down from time to time). To tell the truth, most of the protagonists I've ran into have little in common with me...I just take a different 'persona' for the duration I start reading 'till I sign off.
2).I use walkthroughs all the time so that I can fully concentrate on the story...the only game I've played without WT was ToHeart 2. It took a lot of fumbling to get to all nine heroines, and back then I couldn't understand Japanese, either. Anyway, I don't really care about this - I like to be omniscient when given the option to do so...black sheep wall (Starcraft), marco/polo(Age of Empires II), the aptly named "omniscient" research from Age of Mythology and so on...
3). Now I believe that, from my experience, in your typical eroge title it takes one month or two, maybe three at most, for a heroine to fall for you, is a norm. Taking any longer will only wear your typical player who's out to [paf] down to the point that he gets bored of reading and just charge ahead. I can accept that and let it go...alas, it's a game (maybe...this is from a non-literary point of view). The fastest I've seen a girl falling for the [main character, the term 'protagonist' may not apply in some cases] would be three minutes.
4).See 1. I don't really have much problem because I have little problem adapting to different personalities...and that applies to background and backstories as well.

"Limited to the text on the screen"? I do read the protagonist's lines out when I play VNs...and spoken words tend to be quite unpredictable.

Either I do not play for story or I'm just inexperienced (despite playing eroge for some odd five, six years, I've only stopped to read only in the recent one or two years or so ago) so I'll just leave it at that. One observation I'd like to make is that there is probably some change happening in the customer base (that would be the Japanese) that seem to shift trends to what is going on lately...I specially say that because opinions from outside of Japan never matter anyway because, well, eroges are (explicitly after some point) limited to Japan only. That, or a variation of blockbuster mentality is going on in the eroge industry...much like how Illusion (which made some great interactive hentai games in the past) spews out VN after VN (with 3D graphics!), much to the distaste of the English-speaking community, but that's another thing.

...perhaps what I've been doing so far is not be critical about anything and just take things as they are. Being critical only make a happy story unnecessarily bitter to chew. Become the guy, take his luckiness, and move on...and careful to control yourself.

 

[wehasband]

I really hope more people contribute to the discussion. The title and initial mood of the topic might suggest negative criticism and put people off, but I found out I'm learning a lot from the posters.

My comment about kamige is based on references I see on media where (fictional) characters use it to describe games that have made an impact to them. I know of a few RL gamers, and none of them play eroge or galge for that matter, so there. Threw in my knowledge of markets and that came out. A market responds to different preferences by having some sort of template (school settings are for what else=school romance) that ensures sales. I noticed that Key games that get animated have something else to improve this template, like complex scripts and plot twists, which are well-recieved enough for fans of the games to refer to them as kamige.

I can understand pingtoryan's point of view about enjoying taking things as they are. I myself feel that I'm between being a casual gamer enjoying a character route and a game connosieur keeping an eye out for rare finds.

I finally managed to keep my reply this short so I'm going to stop here with this message; additional knowledge is additional unhappiness. But it helps to talk about it!

PS. Many thanks to Jjason for answering my question. I'd love to learn more about games and I look forward to hearing more from you.

Is it just me or did we leave the anime discussion behind halfway through the thread?

 

[FinalPyre]

The entire thread is tl;dr, but hopefully I don't say anything too redundant, here.

Regarding "No Theme", I apologize that I used my own terms. What I really mean by that is that the theme is utilized too much to the point that anime (or eroge for that matter) is then associated with that particular theme.
As an example, many series of anime describes the lifestyle (realistic or fictional) of a male surrounded by "apparently" unique and (or at least) beautiful females. This "harem" situation continues for several episodes until some series end with the protagonist hooking up with a heroine, or keeping the status quo.
While I really have no problem with the above statement (as contradictory as it sounds), I really hate it when the heroines become affectionate for the protagonist for the smallest goddamn reasons. When you have all those "smallest goddamn reasons" happening at the same time, you have something we commonly call "bs".
What's a "smallest goddamn reason"? I think everyone here would be intelligent enough to figure that out by themselves.

Well harem is a really easy way to do fanservice, because sex sells. It is normally not that hard to avoid if you really dislike them (it is generally obvious even by promo art).

Now, there are obviously exceptions that do not have the "implied theme of romance" such as Madoka, but as I say for those titles in return, they're overrated by who I like to call "weeaboos" (Note that I use this term to describe ANYONE excessively infatuated with a title or series, but fail to explain why that series is so good or why he likes it. So if you can't tell me why you like SAO, Madoka, or even Shingeki, then you're a weeaboo in my eyes), that I just begin to hate the title for some reason (as stated in original post).

I would assert that one should never put too much stock in something because it is popular. There are simply too many reasons other than "it is actually good" for something to become popular. Every now and then you get lucky, but a good deal of the time popular stuff is mediocre stuff. In the end, the popular things will almost always be overrated. Also due to the fact that most people have no idea what scale is, and don't know how to rate things; for example: why isn't the average rating on all review sites close to 5 (or their mid-way equivalent)? I've seen people on MAL go on a large spiel about how much they hate fundamentally everything about a show/movie, and then end with "7/10". What is that I don't even... XD
That aside, you have the strangest definition of weeaboo that I've heard yet. Perhaps even ironic, that Japanese people could easily fall in that category... is it really that bad to not be entirely good at expressing yourself/figuring out the nuances of what you like?

 

[Anayomex]

Welcome to ASF Joyjason

So, having exposed to eroge and anime for several years now, I've realized rather early on that the quality of eroge and anime have been decreasing rapidly.

So let me tell you my opinions then. After watching animes every day for more than 10 years I can certainly say that quality is dropping, of course there are exceptions and also there are a lot of reasons for that which I can think of, for example:

• animes are based on something and usually main reason is that
• unlike in past today there is more and more competition because most of things are done on PC and they are done faster, they using patterns from other series to make job even faster (when adding effects, sounds, models...), there are a lot of new people doing jobs and aren't used to make very good quality in the specific time
• the same is for manga, competition, then author must relase on specific time interval new chapter and is more important to relase new chapter instead to take your time and make a good story
• for authors is very hard to make popular manga title, because of that they usually do more diffrent titles instead one and long one. Because of that they usually using concepts from other series or make some mix between them
• in the past (when they started animated Naruto for example ~9 years ago ) when they making a anime, they are doing in a groups and each group had a time limit, I think 1 month - 3 weeks to make 1 episode (and they were working hard to make it in a time), today is this time a lot shorter and because almost all is done on PC they probably

also doing more than 1 project at the same time, so they can't possibly focus more on only 1 title​

• the same is for anime as for manga, they make usually more series and short instead a one and long because again is hard to make popular only one and this come again a repetitive or mixed concepts
• this is only small portion of reasons which I think of and Everyone already know this...........

 

[Joyjason]

I'd hate to be rude, but regarding everyone's posts not to be "too critical or you ruin the fun", I think it can be analyzed with the following analogy: One will become much more upset or disgusted at a certain topic the more he is familiar with that topic.

I'm rather frustrated that both the anime and eroge industry has been overriden by individuals who don't know, or can't even realize why he likes the series. Even an animal can express preferences or favor for something; what makes humans different is that we can elaborate on why we like it--something other "animals" can't do.

Perhaps this is why I tend to hate people who just "like" things and can't tell me why--in my eyes, they're equivalent (I beg your pardon) to an animal (this is aside the fact that humans are animals too)

[MENTION=21095]pingtoryan[/MENTION]
That is indeed a very unique way to play your games. I've actually performed what you described yesterday, and would like to admit that it was rather embarrassing (partially because I also attempted to "voice" the H-scenes), and commend you for actually performing it properly.

But I understand your distaste for nukige--some games involve "fetishes", and Japan's full of them.
Despite this, let me take a pretty standard situation to describe my words "Limited to the text on the screen". Say that a heroine made you lunch for the first time. Regardless of whether it's bad or not, you can respond in various ways, but the game might not even give you a choice of how to respond. To elaborate, many of the responses given by the main character go along the lines of "This is delicious!", but how do you express it?
You could express it comically, using body language to intensify the emotions you feel
You could express it normally like any other protagonist
You could be pleased, but say "it's not enough"... you get the point.

When I say you are "limited to the text", it's what the text files spit out when instructed to by the game engine and no more. Even if you wanted to act a certain way in a situation, you can't. I'm sure you've seen various number of "coward" protagonists who you would've loved to replace with yourself.

[MENTION=78564]wehasband[/MENTION]
That's a good analysis of what a "kamige" might be. As you theorize, Key games/titles are considered a kamige.

It's also interesting that fictional characters also use the term, when I had thought "kamige" was a word used only by the audience of eroge. I learn something new every day--even from the person who claims to have little knowledge.
Truth be told, it's actually pretty hard to define what characterizes a "kamige", but the general rule of thumb is that it surpasses most games in each and every category available, usually in humor (its quality, usage, and timing), romance (the drama, reasoning, and intensity), and a third factor that varies between games. Some Key games are relatively poor in the romance element, but make up for that flaw with other superior factors.

In addition, many of the kamige have some form of "moral lesson" whether implicitly or explicitly stated. Because of this, I find that human psychology is strongly represented in many of the scenes of a kamige. In addition, kamige ALWAYS seems to have a very distinct and complex relationship with characters AND subcharacters. Games that often ignore the subcharacters after the heroine route has a tendency to become boring, or in my words "too sugary".

But then again, all of the above are my own theories :P

[MENTION=37707]FinalPyre[/MENTION]
Yes, that's exactly how I avoided various titles like DxD or Rosario (although both series, a friend got to showing me anyways)
Regarding the ratings on various websites, I would have to say that the "displacement of the mid-point" (aka, most ratings being 7 instead of 5), shows the inconsistency of the player, or at least the player's bias towards a particular topic. (In the case of "7" being the standard, the player has a biased favor to the topic, due to SOME reason). In either case, they are not knowledgable about rating a game.
In my own eyes, I rarely see a "mediocre" game or anime. It either sucks to the point I want to shoot myself, or is so awesome that I want to cry. Maybe I'm an extremist, but it still beats being "half-assed" about my feelings for a title or series.

Regarding your comment about Japanese being similar to the "weeaboo" I mentioned, I will admit that I saw various Japanese individuals who are very fitting for this title despite their background. I know I utilize the term incorrectly, but ask for your understanding that there's really no better term to negatively label an individual who can't express themselves even when they are given a chance to. Please read my above comment about those kinds of people being equivalent to "animals".

[MENTION=77540]anayomex[/MENTION]

Thanks for your welcome! (Although I WAS registered here for a while, it took me this long to actually start posting)

Let me be the devil's advocate here: if the production of anime is "easier" with the usage of technology, why isn't there more effort placed into its story? As far as I'm concerned, many of the titles that "do well" are original titles, meaning that the production companies had to actually get off their behind and think of a storyline.

In simpler terms, take a look at the White Album 2 series that's all the hype. When I first saw the IC chapter back about 2 years ago, I didn't give two craps about when the closing chapter was released; as long as it was released.

That should be the attitude with anime as well; if it's for a good title, one shouldn't give two craps about when it's released; as long as he can watch it. Therefore, your theory of "competition" is very insignificant, as production of a singl "good title" will make other series in the same season seem very abysmal.

Regarding manga, I admit that I'm not too knowledgable about the topic, but would like to offer my critique in it for being HEAVILY reliant on translators. As stated previously. I do not like translations.



In the end, I think we can all agree that anime (and games) quality is decreasing. Why? It's the viewers who want eyecandy or those individuals who would spend copious amounts of money on anime goods. There's a reason why Japan's so liberal with an element called "fetishes" to the point it's incomprehensible to other cultures--even to the one that's literally 150 miles away from it (South Korea). The people who had the money were probably able to "buy" it.

 

[FinalPyre]

[MENTION=251]Joyjason[/MENTION]; I'm not sure I can say this any way without being abrasive, but it would appear that your lack of education on all these topics you are mentioning is causing you to come to severely incorrect conclusions.

Comparing people to animals because they can't pinpoint exactly why they like something is completely ridiculous (and offensive to those people), the brain is much more complicated than you seem to think.

TV production is more complicated and intense than you seem to think (why would you even begin to assume that the animators' work load effects the writers' work load?). Assuming that other people would bandwagon on your "release it when it is done" approach shows a gross misunderstanding of how people function.

 

[pingtoryan]

[MENTION=251]Joyjason[/MENTION]

I just do the actual 'meat' part when it comes to H-scene, while the moan portion can be either done or omitted with little loss to the atmosphere.

Now that you mentioned it...I had actually run into that kind of situation recently...although my reaction was rather extreme (and so unplausible in such setting) that I just let go of it. But alas, visual novel is still, well, novel. The same case *might* happen in an actual book, and what can one do but let it go if you don't count editing the story (like how I messed up my literature textbook because some pieces are no fun)? I'd say that it is the limit of the media and should not be taken too seriously...too many possibilities to program them all in, I guess.

Like I said, I just turn on my blissfully ignorant mode and just enjoy the story (I prefer to perceive 'what will happen in this same story' than 'bleh, it's just five same stories with different main heroine'), the music (vocal or not), the artwork, and the voice acting...some people refuses to skip text just because "it's disrespectful to the voice actors" (although my true turn-off would be fail-to-loop music - at least make it end in the piece if you have no ability to loop them properly!).

Now back to the main topic...when you say anime goods, apparently eroge, too, is to an unknown degree reliant on goodies. I see them in just about every eroge maker sites I've been on. More focus on the artistic dept. (at least the ones I am following are keeping up in that department), less emphasis on story, perhaps?

I haven't watched any of '13 anime at all save for Walroma...and that one lost me two episodes in - I have read the original, and anime just do not give the same air. That's about all that I know on the recent anime stuff...so, the point here would be that there are, like you said, too many adaptations going on and little originality?

Well, eroges are not supposed to be for overseas audiences (cultural reason is my guess) so we'll have little choice but to go with what time bring us to, but for anime...is the same xenophobia (can't find any way to word it better) at work there as well? Do anime makers even think about overseas market...now that's said, are they just catering to Otakus? People go to eroge for 'otaku' stuff, and eroge is a better platform than, say, anime, that is much more accessible to the masses.

TL;DR for the meat portion: Goodies seem to be on to both anime and eroges alike and that might have effect, possibly too many adaptations for anime, and overcatering to otaku that they forget the normal audience, even among their own people, forget overseas.

Spoiler: irrelevant perhaps

The weird thing is, I can keep downing eroges...but why not anime? The last 'good' anime I've saw would be Maria-sama ga Miteiru...I loved all four seasons of that particular title. Nothing really catch my eyes anymore. Is it because I'm too deeply indulged in eroges or they are simply unappealing and overhyped?

"What's wrong with being cute?" would be what I say if someone bring up the 'cute' factor that drag anime down. I don't think going too 'cute' is the culprit here...

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

I can only really comment on anime and maybe manga... havent watched anything this year really except rwby which probably doesnt count... but adaptions usually just makes everything worse... manga ln and vn usually get adapted into anime and then tons of smaller plots are lost in the process... anime changes the original storyline as it is created and if they happen to deem a small part as negligible when it is actually essential later on... the adaption will no longer work without more loss of quality in the storyline...
I look for realism or at least logic.. aka if theres some strong emotion then there has to be reason why there is such... looking at all those heroines which seem to fall in love without reason... i accept that it is an escape from reality but it is still created by people which should have some common logic somewhere in their mind... sometimes they explain the fails in logic with a radical character and or event later on which sort of covers the plot hole... But just because something is an adaption doesnt make it bad immediately...
Unnecessary fanservice... Im fairly sure that people would complain about any level of fanservice then some would complain about the lack of fanservice... i just dont care either way unless it actually has a major impact like a pointless scene which has nothing storywise and is purely for fanservice... a waste of resources that could be used towards making the story better...
Not sure what you mean by no theme since everything has a theme... Themes are just tools and its up to the creators to use it correctly...
Repetitive events are also a tool which keeps the creation together... if no events connected then itll turn into a mess... and with a more negative note, its also the result of people not being able to think of more "original" approaches since there is very little that can be called original as it is... everything has inspiration somewhere...
I would say efforts of the creators play the biggest factor into it all..~ They also have different goals in creating something and what you like might be something that someone else doesnt and vice versa... So theyre catering to an audience which may or may not include you... and you seem to think popular trends are moving towards the latter?
Anyhow too little time to add more so ill just leave it as is ><