H Games wiki

[Inquisitor]

Re: Artcile structure

So, I've planned the structure for all games except VH. For some pages I didn't know what to do with them:

• Artificial Girl 3 gameplay guide
  Difference to general gameplay?
• Artificial Girl 3 Clothing Uploads
  Empty page. Propably delete?
• Artificial Girl 3 user-made clothing
  Is propably out-of-date; Delete?
• Artificial Girl 3 version history
  Which category?
• Box_-Hako-_skinship_guide
  What means "skinship"? Rename?
• Sexy Beach 3 mods resource usage
  Propably needs a better name
• Yuusha Digital
  The content does not fit the page name...

...

I'm sorry, but I'm having major second thoughts about the restructuring. The reason is that there are literally hundreds of links scattered around the 'net that it will break. We already had one major kick to the groin by Wikia and I don't think the nuts are ready for one more kick just yet. ^^

My revised view is that I basically think we should only do it for new games. The benefit of restructuring is only minor and it is questionable if we will be doing the community a service or in fact the opposite. I am sorry that I didn't think it thoroughly through before now! :redface:

...
Some random questions / thoughts I had while planning the page structure:

• Which title would be better for an overview/list of mods: "Mods", "Mod list", "Mod overview"?
• Create a seperate lvl-2 Sub for patches, etc.? How name it?
• Create the standard pages "Gameplay", "H Guide", "Technical Help" and Modding" for all games (also for those which are currently missing this pages)?
• Is the correct name Box -Hako- or "Hako Box"?
• Rename "LoveDeath_2_-_Realtime_Lovers" to "Love_Death_2"
• Rename "Renai+H" to get rid of the "%2B"
• Rename "VH" to "Violated_Heroine"
• Rename "Schoolmate Sweets!" to "School_Mate_Sweets!" so it matches the names of the SM1 and SM2
• Does ILLUSION FIELD really have to be completely in capital letters?

Please go through the plan and tell me what you think / edit the plan.
I will fill the summaries when the plans are confirmed.

These are my thoughts on your thoughts:

• I doubt that anybody will maintain a mods list. We already have release threads for that and the current list of mods is very fickle, meaning the host can be offline or the modder have decided to remove it etc.
• We can create a separate sub for patches/DLC, but I think only few games will have it. I dunno what to call it.
• I think standard pages will be helpful, but some games, for instance VN's, will not have anything to put in some of them.
• It is known as Hako, but some people (US residents in particular) has issues with using untranslated name for games, so Box -Hako- was the compromise.
• No. VH should not be renamed (see above).
• No. SMS should also not be renamed.
• No, but I think you will break links to it if you rename the page.

btw, like hmoeller I think you shouldn't quote the spammer. Please edit your post and remove it.

 

[trololove]

Re: Artcile structure

I'm sorry, but I'm having major second thoughts about the restructuring. The reason is that there are literally hundreds of links scattered around the 'net that it will break. We already had one major kick to the groin by Wikia and I don't think the nuts are ready for one more kick just yet. ^^

My revised view is that I basically think we should only do it for new games. The benefit of restructuring is only minor and it is questionable if we will be doing the community a service or in fact the opposite. I am sorry that I didn't think it thoroughly through before now! :redface:


These are my thoughts on your thoughts:

• No. VH should not be renamed (see above).
• No. SMS should also not be renamed.
• No, but I think you will break links to it if you rename the page.

You absulety don't have to worry about links getting broken. For example, we have already applied the new page structure for @HomeMate. For example, if you want to open the page with the story you would have to type wiki.anime-sharing.com/hgames/index.php/@HomeMate/Story. But the old links still work: open http://wiki.anime-sharing.com/hgames/index.php/@HomeMate_Story and you will get redirected to the new page (that's the reason why the navigation bar can still work even we have already moved the pages but not changed the links ;)). Even better: the new link doesn't even get displayed in your browsers URL-Field. So there shouldn't be ANY confusion nor broken links, meaning we can rename and move the pages with quiet conscience.

You shouldn't quote him, as this will help his spamdexing efforts. Blocked & Deleted page.

btw, like hmoeller I think you shouldn't quote the spammer. Please edit your post and remove it.

Ok, removed any content related to the bot from my post. Sorry.

 

[Inquisitor]

Re: Artcile structure

You absulety don't have to worry about links getting broken. For example, we have already applied the new page structure for @HomeMate. For example, if you want to open the page with the story you would have to type wiki.anime-sharing.com/hgames/index.php/@HomeMate/Story. But the old links still work: open http://wiki.anime-sharing.com/hgames/index.php/@HomeMate_Story and you will get redirected to the new page (that's the reason why the navigation bar can still work even we have already moved the pages but not changed the links ;)). Even better: the new link doesn't even get displayed in your browsers URL-Field. So there shouldn't be ANY confusion nor broken links, meaning we can rename and move the pages with quiet conscience.
...

Brilliant! Thanks for being elaborate about it. I guess it's all green lights then!

 

[trololove]

Re: Artcile structure

I guess it's all green lights then!

Great! Now we just have to get those parser functions to work. Oh, and this extension might also come in handy, since we propably could fill the navigation bar automaticly (I am not sure if it will be as good as I imagine it, but we should give it a try).

Brilliant! Thanks for being elaborate about it.

Well, actually that's the work of the mediawiki programmers - I did nothing. The redirect pages are created by default when you move a page ^^

PS:Do the green lights also account for the renameing?

 

[Inquisitor]

Re: Artcile structure

Great! Now we just have to get those parser functions to work. Oh, and this extension might also come in handy, since we propably could fill the navigation bar automaticly (I am not sure if it will be as good as I imagine it, but we should give it a try).


Well, actually that's the work of the mediawiki programmers - I did nothing. The redirect pages are created by default when you move a page ^^

PS: Do the green lights also account for the renameing?

ofc it does! I'm really sorry for the stirring up things like that. I can only excuse my dismissive reply with ignorance. Thanks again.

 

[hmoeller]

Any news on the subpage and ParserFunctions topic? It's just 4 more lines in the LocalSettings.php and can easily rolled back in case of problems.

 

[Inquisitor]

Any news on the subpage and ParserFunctions topic? It's just 4 more lines in the LocalSettings.php and can easily rolled back in case of problems.

I don't see why not, but Checkmate wanted to look into the subpage feature, so I think we should give him a little more time. In the meantime I have enabled the ParserFunctions extension.

 

[Inquisitor]

Any news on the subpage and ParserFunctions topic? It's just 4 more lines in the LocalSettings.php and can easily rolled back in case of problems.

Well, maybe we should just leave Checkmate to his vacation and do it ourselves. Would it be enough to do it for the main namespace or do we need the code that enables it for all namespaces?

 

[hmoeller]

Well, maybe we should just leave Checkmate to his vacation and do it ourselves. Would it be enough to do it for the main namespace or do we need the code that enables it for all namespaces?

So far the main namespace is enough. We may later decide if we want a modding namespace, but all in time. So it is perfectly fine to add

About the suggested article structure featuring subpages, I wrote the requirements at the talk page:

$wgNamespacesWithSubpages[NS_MAIN] = true;
$wgAllowDisplayTitle = true;
$wgRestrictDisplayTitle = false;

which would allow to have a page Somegame/H_Guide and use {{DISPLAYTITLE:Somegame H Guide}} to show the game name in the title. If we do not get subpages or unrestricted titles, we should ''at least'' standardize the pages used ($GAME, $GAME_H_Guide, $GAME_Gameplay, $GAME_FAQ ...). Guess we need to ask Checkmate first what he thinks he want to allow.

to LocalSettings.php.

In other news, thanks to the ParserFunction extension the Gamecompany template is now much smarter. On most company pages no parameters should be required. company defaults to "{{BASEPAGENAME}}" and category defaults to "{{BASEPAGENAME}} Games".
Only Illusion page needs explicit parameters, as the page is "IllusionGames" which is incorrect - should be just "Illusion".

 

[Inquisitor]

So far the main namespace is enough. We may later decide if we want a modding namespace, but all in time. So it is perfectly fine to add


to LocalSettings.php.

...

Done. Let me know if it works as intended.

...
In other news, thanks to the ParserFunction extension the Gamecompany template is now much smarter. On most company pages no parameters should be required. company defaults to "{{BASEPAGENAME}}" and category defaults to "{{BASEPAGENAME}} Games".
Only Illusion page needs explicit parameters, as the page is "IllusionGames" which is incorrect - should be just "Illusion".

That's great! Why don't we just change the IllusionGames company?

 

[hmoeller]

Done. Let me know if it works as intended.

I had to tweak the {{hgame}} template a bit, but looks good so far.

@everyone please post when something does not look right on a page

That's great! Why don't we just change the IllusionGames company?

That is planned, but as Illusion has a large amount of game it's hard for me to see the whole impact of that change. I'll probably export the illusiongames category to my testwiki to test it first.

 

[Inquisitor]

I had to tweak the {{hgame}} template a bit, but looks good so far.

@everyone please post when something does not look right on a page



That is planned, but as Illusion has a large amount of game it's hard for me to see the whole impact of that change. I'll probably export the illusiongames category to my testwiki to test it first.

I just tested a few wiki's and it seems to work fine. Good job. :)

About IllusionGames: It would probably be best to test in a sandbox, yes.

 

[hmoeller]

I just tested a few wiki's and it seems to work fine. Good job. :)

It's a bit hard to make a template that supports all levels of subpages and still can work with non-subpaged sections. The next version will support both, and you don't need the game= parameter for subpaged games any more. It's a bit hard to read...

[[{{#ifeq: {{{game|{{#titleparts: {{FULLPAGENAME}}|1}}}}}|{{#titleparts: {{FULLPAGENAME}}|1}}|{{#titleparts: {{FULLPAGENAME}}|1}}|{{{game}}}}}]]

... but it does the job :redface:

 

[Inquisitor]

It's a bit hard to make a template that supports all levels of subpages and still can work with non-subpaged sections. The next version will support both, and you don't need the game= parameter for subpaged games any more. It's a bit hard to read...

[[{{#ifeq: {{{game|{{#titleparts: {{FULLPAGENAME}}|1}}}}}|{{#titleparts: {{FULLPAGENAME}}|1}}|{{#titleparts: {{FULLPAGENAME}}|1}}|{{{game}}}}}]]

... but it does the job :redface:

Well, the template is a bit obscure to most contributors anyway, so I don't worry too much that it got a little more complex. Thanks for your work on it!

 

[hmoeller]

(See also http://wiki.anime-sharing.com/hgames/index.php/Talk:IllusionGames#Moving_Page_to_.22Illusion.22)

I'm currently testing the impact of a page move from IllusionGames to Illusion. It seems it's not a big issue at all.

1. IllusionGames is moved to Illusion, leaving a redirect.
2. The page will now automatically use {{IllusionGames}} as game list which currently still holds the old template.
3. {{IllusionGames}} will get the content of the current template {{IllusionGamesGames}}.

Only trouble are the pages still linking to the old template. Those should be checked beforehand. The pages are:

• Afkhound LST injection format
• DIGITOWN
• IllusionGames:Spanking Arts Wiki incident
• IllusionGames:WikiNode
• Talk:IllusionGames:Spanking Arts Wiki incident

I'd guess the "Spanking Arts Wiki incident" related stuff is no longer needed. Do we have interwiki relations (WikiNode)? Any insights about DIGITOWN? What about Afkhound LST injection format?

Also, will this affect the Maintenance Bot creating subpages?

 

[trololove]

Also, will this affect the Maintenance Bot creating subpages?

It should not affect the bot. For moving the pages it simply takes the name (or the page-id) of the old page and calls an API-request for moving the page to the new one. Also redirects are automaticly resolved by the API.

 

[trololove]

So, I have generated the move summaries for most of the games. Please go through them and tell me wether they are fine or if something has to be changed.
If they are fine I'll fire up the maintenance bot.

 

[Inquisitor]

DIGITOWN is the poser Illusion released for sales outside Japan. Afkhound LST injection format is maybe still applicable and belongs in a general modding section.

 

[hmoeller]

DIGITOWN is the poser Illusion released for sales outside Japan. Afkhound LST injection format is maybe still applicable and belongs in a general modding section.

I'll take care that those pages get their place then.

So, I have generated the move summaries for most of the games. Please go through them and tell me wether they are fine or if something has to be changed.
If they are fine I'll fire up the maintenance bot.

Looks fine to me. We should also agree on some standard to game page lists, such as

• Include '''Headings''' or not?
• What are minimum standard pages?

If we're going for headings, minimum should be:

* '''About'''
** [[Gamepage]]
* '''Gameplay'''
** [[Gamepage/Gameplay|General Gameplay]]
* '''Misc'''
** [[Gamepage/Technical Help|Technical Help]]

If we don't need headings, it's just

* [[Gamepage|About]]
* [[Gamepage/Gameplay|General Gameplay]]
* [[Gamepage/Technical Help|Technical Help]]

If a game doesn't need any of those three pages, it's basically not worth to include in the wiki... ;)

 

[Inquisitor]

I'm not sure what you mean by "Headings"?

So, I have generated the move summaries for most of the games. Please go through them and tell me wether they are fine or if something has to be changed.
If they are fine I'll fire up the maintenance bot.

I have skimmed it and I think it looks fine. One thing though, what about keeping the Mods pages and just put a link to the mod release thread(s)? What do you guys think of this idea? Or are there already plenty "roads" to the mods?

 

[hmoeller]

I'm not sure what you mean by "Headings"?

If you look at various game pages, in the navigation box (the {{hgame}} template) some games have section headings.
For example, @HomeMate has several subpages under "About", "Gameplay", "Items", "Modding"...
while some pages like Box -Hako- do not have headers in the pagelist. What style do we favor?

One thing though, what about keeping the Mods pages and just put a link to the mod release thread(s)? What do you guys think of this idea? Or are there already plenty "roads" to the mods?

We should have a link to the mod thread on the main game page anyway. The mod lists are horribly outdated and for older games almost all links are dead. We currently lack maintainers to keep them up to date, i fear.

 

[Inquisitor]

If you look at various game pages, in the navigation box (the {{hgame}} template) some games have section headings.
For example, @HomeMate has several subpages under "About", "Gameplay", "Items", "Modding"...
while some pages like Box -Hako- do not have headers in the pagelist. What style do we favor?


We should have a link to the mod thread on the main game page anyway. The mod lists are horribly outdated and for older games almost all links are dead. We currently lack maintainers to keep them up to date, i fear.

I definitely prefer headings. :) Alright regarding mods.

 

[trololove]

I personally would still like to test this extension first. Looking at the documentation we could automaticly get the whole navigation by this code (once the extension ist installed)

{{#subpages:
page=*GamePage*| //Gets the subpages of this specific page (e.g. @HomeMate)
format=ul| //Unordered list (with bullets instead of numbers)
pathstyle=subpagename| //Shows only the name of the subpage, not the whole path
default=There are currently no pages for this game!| //The default value will be shown if there are no subpages
links=yes| //The items in the list will be links (must be yes since it's a navigation)
showpage= ?? //Unsure wether this one should be 'yes' or 'no'. Must be tested.
}}

Could we give it a try?

include '''Headings''' or not?

I definitely prefer headings. :)

I would prefer headings as links.

 

[Inquisitor]

I personally would still like to test this extension first. Looking at the documentation we could automaticly get the whole navigation by this code (once the extension ist installed)

{{#subpages:
page=*GamePage*| //Gets the subpages of this specific page (e.g. @HomeMate)
format=ul| //Unordered list (with bullets instead of numbers)
pathstyle=subpagename| //Shows only the name of the subpage, not the whole path
default=There are currently no pages for this game!| //The default value will be shown if there are no subpages
links=yes| //The items in the list will be links (must be yes since it's a navigation)
showpage= ?? //Unsure wether this one should be 'yes' or 'no'. Must be tested.
}}

Could we give it a try?

Uhm, SubPageList is not a standard WikiMedia extension and it would have to be installed first. It's beyond what I'm willing to do and I honestly don't know if Checkmate is able to. He is on 2 months vacation, about two weeks in.

...
I would prefer headings as links.

Would be cool, bu then there's even more pages to create. Is it really that useful for the relatively limited amount of pages in most H game wiki's?

 

[trololove]

Would be cool, bu then there's even more pages to create. Is it really that useful for the relatively limited amount of pages in most H game wiki's?

I think there's a missunderstanding here. I have created the navigation as I imagine it for @HomeMate. I don't see why there would be even more pages to create, but as I said I think it's a missunderstanding ;).
Also regarding the navigation I would like to have a new Namespace: "Navigation", so we can create and easily identify pages which are used for the navigation. For @HomeMate the corresponding page would be "Navigation:@HomeMate". I like this idea more then the idea simply creating pages in the "Template" namespace with a "Nav" postfix (e.g. "Template:@HomeMateNav"), since this would mess things up again.