The Great Eroge Crash of 2013, a short essay.

[Lemon Solace]

So I've been watching eroge trend uploads going back into 2012 and witnessed a great deal of slowdown of new share/p2p releases. Some titles I still can't find and others take months to appear.

Then there's the lack of well...community. Fewer are involved, fewer peers, fewer seeders. Notable too is torrent peer domination from Japan where previous years saw overwhelming international flags. Big names on forums and communities, from modding to discussions have also gone silent.

The "scene" has become more fractured too, with ddl websites flourishing and the fall of HF's torrent forum, the once defacto source for most eroge torrents. In essence breaking the community and (ironically) at times actually making it harder to find things.

On top of that we've had the recent japanese police p2p arrests, spooking the Japanese community. I'll admit my surprise seeing those arrests having such impact and more so the lack of response to fight back like western p2p communities do.

It's not helped the communities "releaser pool" actually shrinking to only a select few and in cause when losing just one of those, well its like taking away a major bridge support.

The eroge market has become oversaturated too, possibly shrinking the community indirectly. Considering that like 20-40 games are released a month for nearly 10 years straight - thats an average of 360 games A YEAR, more then a game a day.

How many times have we all played the same story now? The same character archetypes? It gotten a little repetitive. It has to. Yet at the same time I feel like I'm still waiting for that "perfect" story.

How the eroge industry itself survives makes me wonder, my backlog alone goes back years now. As a consumer I'm forced to stick to favorite artists or companies. Yet with the rise of digital sales of smaller games, it just doesn't stop.

Then we have the general popularity of anime or further lack of, it's certainly not at retail consumption levels pre-2010 internationally.

I believe part of this also has to do with age, a lot of us have gotten older. Priorities, relationships and life itself moves us away from the scene and new uploaders just haven't appeared to fill the gap. Young people have much more distractions and choices, plus there are fewer animes on western television now and the general consumption worldwide has decreased.

Lets not even mention the fall of the JRPG that once dominated consoles.

Many in Japan are also becoming increasingly xenophobic and many japanese on 2ch seem to have issues with the west playing "their" games (much thanks to the fallout of Rapelay) effecting those willing to share and haven't returned to the scene since.

Its like a golden age has passed in the eroge sharing community and its slowly collapsing.

I'm not certain what the future holds, though new releases will always be shared I do believe they will become fewer in number. Nor is it just one element being effected as laws pertaining to adult anime itself are debated in Japanese politics year after year.

It all interconnects and we will see further consequences of this in the future but where it all leads is hard to say.

 

[Albel]

Re: The Great Eroge Crash of 2013

Well the fanbase of eroge is just that much smaller than the one of say regular games. After all we're talking about a japanese niche in itself and of those few fans, most seem to be pretty normal people.
And since the scene as we know it in the west mostly stemmed from computer geeks and hackers, who started sharing because of principles, there's a whole different mentality there. No idea if something like our scene even exists in japan, if it does then maybe there's a chance there, for them to take over.

Also yeah I agree, the market has become very, very oversaturated, especially with a few genres and all of them releasing on one or two dates a month isn't making things any better. There's also been a lot of eroge developers closing down in the last couple of years and for every non-moege company closing down there seem to be 3 new standard moege companies opening....

In my opinion that's the real problem people should be talking about, because if there's one thing that's scary, then it's how a new nitroplus game like totono or paradox from cotton soft are "still" missing when the first batch of "crap" eroge is already out ;)

 

[Kamigoroshi]

Re: The Great Eroge Crash of 2013

First dies Google Reader, then the Eroge industry (wich has been on downfall for a while) has been getting harder to manage overseas, what should I expect next to die, Spiderman?! *hears voice from next room* Spiderman already died man, some issues ago!* Wha-?! What is the world coming to?! *fall to his knees*

On a serious note, I guess is a mixture of different reasons, starting with the culture the japanese people have (that I deduce is something like the opposite of what we see in anime and the likes) also the big amount of released games every month but mostly tend to be the same story but with a different art...the amount of chara-ge is way too much, and I don't say I hate them, of course I play some of them because of the art, some characters (sometimes...) or maybe because I just became a follower of the producer, but if they could just add something new, something refreshing, not the same plain MC and the idealistics heroines. But unfortunately that's what is selling right now. So if a great number of producers are doing that, how about changing all the eroges to nukiges and we take out all the problem they have to come up with some crappy-plot to make a route for h-scenes. Might as well change anime to pure moe-lolis-all female-cast and endless shounens.
I guess it would be better if we heard how is it going with all of that from people from Japan? I think we could understand better why everything has going that way.

 

[Tentacle Bandit]

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slurp! Slurp!

The perverted mind shall persist!

Never give up!

Never surrender her panties!

I hope are hentai comrades in China, where the towers reach for the sky will fill the gap! Many JAV releases originate from Hong Kong but alas, as are Lemon friend has pointed out so few are those IP's from countries other then the homeland of Japan.

Birthplace of the great hentai tentacle!!!

 

[metalliko]

Then there's the lack of well...community. Fewer are involved, fewer peers, fewer seeders. Notable too is torrent peer domination from Japan where previous years saw overwhelming international flags. Big names on forums and communities, from modding to discussions have also gone silent.

The "scene" has become more fractured too, with ddl websites flourishing and the fall of HF's torrent forum, the once defacto source for most eroge torrents. In essence breaking the community and (ironically) at times actually making it harder to find things.

On top of that we've had the recent japanese police p2p arrests, spooking the Japanese community. I'll admit my surprise seeing those arrests having such impact and more so the lack of response to fight back like western p2p communities do.

It's not helped the communities "releaser pool" actually shrinking to only a select few and in cause when losing just one of those, well its like taking away a major bridge support.

Do we know why hongfire stop to do p2p topic ?
And some one know how concretely the system works ? Why today we do not the same quantity ?

The eroge market has become oversaturated too, possibly shrinking the community indirectly. Considering that like 20-40 games are released a month for nearly 10 years straight - thats an average of 360 games A YEAR, more then a game a day.

How many times have we all played the same story now? The same character archetypes? It gotten a little repetitive. It has to. Yet at the same time I feel like I'm still waiting for that "perfect" story.

How the eroge industry itself survives makes me wonder, my backlog alone goes back years now. As a consumer I'm forced to stick to favorite artists or companies. Yet with the rise of digital sales of smaller games, it just doesn't stop.

Then we have the general popularity of anime or further lack of, it's certainly not at retail consumption levels pre-2010 internationally.

I am not agree with your argument. if i fallow you, we dont need to make new movies or book because it always the same story. The Jap can make millions eroge as they put talent in their games. And that is one of probrems.
I download eroge since 2004/2005 (and played lot of 90's eroge) and i do not like the trend of the "pure love" eroge. I understand that the genre need to exist, but today the majority of eroge are made by this stuff. We need to see more dark eroge or simply eroge with a "adult" story because this type of eroge give more possibility to the writters that the pure love eroge which occurs in 90% of cases in a school.
The second problem is market of eroge : I cleary not understand how developper can live with a small market with price so high. A good game cost today 90$/70€. It too expensive. They need to open the market for the rest of the world, develop a official agth and sell games to 40 €.

Sorry for my english.

 

[Douman]

understand that the genre need to exist, but today the majority of eroge are made by this stuff. We need to see more dark eroge or simply eroge with a "adult" story beacause this type of eroge give more possibility to the writters that the pure love eroge which occurs in 90% of cases in a school.

I know that feel bro

But most of people(in our case Japanese) are satisfied with current eroge. No point to make something better if everything is fine already.
Well, there are some developers who make something better of course, it's not so sad :)
Besides actually not much new thing are added cuz there is not much point(risks, some people like old cliche and etc)
quite usual situation

Really sad that there is such trouble with new releases(still no Futagoza no Paradox, i want to check it :()

 

[Lemon Solace]

Do we know why hongfire stop to do p2p topic ?
And some one know how concretely the system works ? Why today we do not the same quantity ?

I am not agree with your argument. if i fallow you, we dont need to make new movies or book because it always the same story. The Jap can make millions eroge as they put talent in their games. And that is one of probrems.
I download eroge since 2004/2005 (and played lot of 90's eroge) and i do not like the trend of the "pure love" eroge. I understand that the genre need to exist, but today the majority of eroge are made by this stuff. We need to see more dark eroge or simply eroge with a "adult" story because this type of eroge give more possibility to the writters that the pure love eroge which occurs in 90% of cases in a school.
The second problem is market of eroge : I cleary not understand how developper can live with a small market with price so high. A good game cost today 90$/70€. It too expensive. They need to open the market for the rest of the world, develop a official agth and sell games to 40 €.

Sorry for my english.

A1: Hongfire from my recollection was getting some pretty serious heat from DLSITE and their host was getting threats to remove the site if I recall correctly. Eventually the servers were shut down, and the only way to recover the forum was to remove the torrent part of it.

A2: This problem also exists in movies and books, I mean how many times have they rebooted super hero movies now? However movies are improving their story lines (at times and other times not), but eroge hasn't done such a great job of that.

The only really "new" thing is NTR and a notable in thw last 2 years many studios produced a token NTR game. Ironically (personally) I look forward to eroge sequels now more so then anything.

Pure love has always existed, and some people don't like dark games in general. Hell I like both dark games and pure love games depending on my mood. Again it really comes down to the story. Like sex variety is good and good for your brain.

I think at one point we all become (to a certain point) desensitized and each of us finds a comfort level of eroticism, a fetish if you will.

I remember reading somebody argue that eventually only extreme things can turn you on, but I disagree. Life is about experiences and some are good and some are bad. We tend to want to repeat the ones we enjoy and avoid the ones we dislike. So if something completely turns me off then I'm going to make a point of avoiding it, just like anything else in life unless it has a long term benefit.

My point being is everybody is different and the market mostly depends on pure love games, mind you pure love is becoming more extreme now too.

I've been playing eroge since 1994-96ish and Pure Love was once just 3 sex scenes at the end of the game. Now Pure love has sex scenes throughout the game and sometimes even bondage. So things do change and lines eventually blur.

As for cost, its a small market place to begin with and Japans electronic market is an entirely different subject.

 

[FlowerTradeWinds]

A1: Hongfire from my recollection was getting some pretty serious heat from DLSITE and their host was getting threats to remove the site if I recall correctly. Eventually the servers were shut down, and the only way to recover the forum was to remove the torrent part of it.

My personal thought on this is HF didn't want to part with their shiny $7000 server and rent elsewhere which can handle the DMCA. So they just colocate the server nearby. Well, it is logical since their Admins/Mods don't take part in DDL sharing, they have no incentive to spend more just to keep the download sections going.

For me, if there is new games I will release it, if not, the archive is somewhere around 20TB of galgame, that is enough for tens if not hundreds of lifetime worth of content. There is really... no need to have new games...

The golden age is well past, partly because of HF, and partly because of FBI, and mostly because of Paypal.

Even with the best case scenario it would cost close to 200000 Yen per month just to cover all releases. Unfortunately there isn't a safe or easy way to collect that kind of money anymore unlike before HF is down.

 

[spoxxy]

Even with the best case scenario it would cost close to 200000 Yen per month just to cover all releases. Unfortunately there isn't a safe or easy way to collect that kind of money anymore unlike before HF is down.

humm what about creating a ewallet with moneybookers or neteller or other similar service? also for what its worth Bitcoin looks promising.

 

[Will98]

Bitcoin will only help to increase in inflation of prices. Then possible bubble burst.... which would make exchange of goods with bitcoin either insanely expensive or cheap.

As Flower stated, yes Paypal has had a hand in the slow failing of the eroge market/distro of eroge in the states and other countries.

 

[HatoriTakaya]

I had rough read and skimmed of the entire thread worth of posts that basically touched the topics of the rise and fall of eroge distribution and its methods. Plus what happened and its causes. To be honest, I had to say, I wasn't too surprised when HF chose to remove the content that wasn't the majority of the forums reason of existence. If most people were truly there for the forums and its other topics, then the other bits that was removed will only decrease the amount of users that was only there for the stuff.

You can correct me, if you feel I'm wrong though.

With that said, I was sadden when it occurred but in reality, there's just people out there that still want to cause havoc against certain cultures due to their xenophobia and inability to accept that it a merely outlined what occurs in a fantasy setting. Now when we talk about the game R.a.p.e.l.a.y, people don't normally get that game unless they search it personally. So their exaggeration about its existence and that Japan is the root of all evil is a serious defamation. The act of r.a.p.e. occurred before even electronics existed, so really these people just took it far for a story.

This obviously caused a ripple in public perception and gave companies in Japan not much of a choice but to just cut all IP outside of Japan to ensure the least amount of harassment and possibly other matters that is not recorded. When that event occurred, some people who had a linage in Japanese ethnics was attacked. It happened in my country and it wasn't pretty. This is to top of the hatred of them from the WWII period to make things worse. [Note: There's a lot of countries that has citizens that still bear a strong hatred towards them. It's sad but that's how it is for those countries and its' citizens.]

Now bringing the topic back to the more recent present, with all those arrests, shut downs, legal threats and some cases of abuse in the legal system to do a take down and take them from one country to another to be courted almost with no legal representation. It's no wonder people who upload is now in a more cautious state on who they share it with and how they achieve that means. The Age that people enjoyed goods from the shared source may look like it's over but in reality, if people seek and wish it to be out there. It will be out there for those who seek it or has the patience to wait until someone releases it.

-----------------------------------------------

In my opinion, I will gratefully accept what we have left and simply move on. Even though the releases are now slowing, consider finishing all those Eroge you haven't completed then complain when you really have nothing more to do. I'm pretty sure life is ticking for you and me. For me personally, I find myself more involved with reality to have the time to spare any excess thoughts about mourning about the loss that has occurred. It's unfortunate but you will accept what you can get.

Regretfully, only time will tell and perhaps it will recover or not. It comes down to those who wish to upload and purchase those eroges to be shared and by what means, in a secured manner to minimize risks associated to it.

 

[Mori-tan]

Regarding the take-downs, I honestly believe there is nothing to fear.
The attempts to curb piracy resemble something akin to a never-ending game of whack-a-mole:
It doesn't matter how many times you take them down, another one will pop right back up.
As long as the prices for eroge remain so high, piracy is going to happen.
As Gabe Newell said, "the only way to beat piracy is to offer a better service than the pirates." I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[FlowerTradeWinds]

Regarding the take-downs, I honestly believe there is nothing to fear.
The attempts to curb piracy resemble something akin to a never-ending game of whack-a-mole:
It doesn't matter how many times you take them down, another one will pop right back up.
As long as the prices for eroge remain so high, piracy is going to happen.
As Gabe Newell said, "the only way to beat piracy is to offer a better service than the pirates." I wholeheartedly agree.

Exactly, the Uploaders will pop right back up.
But the "Original Uploaders" aren't. That is why the game releases are rather late recently, or even not being released.
Most "Uploaders" would just upload what someone else uploaded.

If there is no one sharing something in the first place, there is really nothing get "uploaded". Those "Original Uploaders" are the one actually paying the cash to buy the game, or in the case of CG, actually spend the time ripping the CG pack.

So as long as people do not piss off the "Original uploaders" or the potential ones, then you are right that "another one will pop right back up".

 

[Realm]

It's not that surprising that when the Japanese police started taking in uploaders that sharing slowed down. For one, the people who were uploading aren't anymore. What really affected it though, is the fact that it's now known that piracy is now being punished. P2p sharing is illegal. It's literally theft. It was only a matter of time before police caught on and started cracking down on it. The past 10-15 years have been like the wild west for the internet. It was new to the world, and there weren't really any rules or regulations on it, because no one knew the extent of what the internet was really capable of. Now that the internet is an integral part of every 1st world country in the world, piracy has become painfully obvious to everyone.
So, the police cracking down on it isn't a huge surprise. It wouldn't surprise me if they eventually started going after everyone, not just the uploaders. If/When that happens, that's when it's really over.
Piracy will always be around, just like regular theft. However, I think it's going to become increasingly more difficult, and p2p sharing will likely stop completely. At least on the scale it's on now. I'm sure people will still send their friends a game they want to share directly. Otherwise, you'll have to literally hack into a company's website and take what you want, if you really don't want to pay for it.
However, I also believe that it will also become easier and cheaper to obtain these things legally. Just look at the music industry. I remember when buying an album meant spending $20-$30. Now though, you can listen for free through a service like spotify or pandora, and can pay like $15 a month to listen to however many free songs you want. Or you can just go on Youtube and listen to music that way.
Another great example is Steam. While there is still a lot of regular gaming piracy(especially for indie games), Steam makes PC gaming so much more affordable, that it's made a lot more people just go ahead and buy the game, since it's less work to do so. Also, their addition of achievements and trading cards have also helped curb piracy. Since you're not able to get either if you get the game illegally.
Anyway, to sum this up. P2p sharing will eventually die, but the games should become easier and cheaper in the meantime.

 

[motherofass]

Are there any tutorials to getting started with finding eroge on freenet? Apparently some people are migrating there from Share

 

[987987987]

I don't know how many uploaders used to be active in total, but this month there's only been three of them on Freenet, so it's not like everyone suddenly started using it. Everything uploaded on Freenet gets uploaded everywhere else, but if you just want to know what to expect, read up on Freenet and Frost and add the _jp_eroge board. There's this list also: http://bbs4.2djgame.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=361255

 

[nukinukinuki]

Unless I'm mistaken, I think girlcelly has leant how to import stuffs from Freenet. I do appreciate his doing it because grabbing games Freenet takes time and puts burden on a machine. Also, if someone outside Japan could grab games from Freenet, that's much safer than someone in Japan importing games from Freenet. No matter how secure Freenet is, game is over if someone gets caught importing games to share. As they say, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

 

[pingtoryan]

For how long must [the majority of eroge players outside of Japan] be leeches...?

I've downed a lot of these stuff, and afterwards, for some I really want to just purchase the thing, But what can one do when this stuff is locally outlawed...not to mention the stuff themselves being blocked to Japan?

...and can eroge be distributed through some Steam-like system...? Even if there is, I'm willing to bet that it will still be limited to the Japanese anyway. Not sure if the so-called DLsite counts, though...

...Mores is such a ball and chain when you at it this way...why would one pirate when there is no reason to pirate?

My apologies for spouting nonsenses if you perceive it so, but I really have to let go...

 

[aexiel]

Piracy will always be around, just like regular theft. However, I think it's going to become increasingly more difficult, and p2p sharing will likely stop completely. At least on the scale it's on now. I'm sure people will still send their friends a game they want to share directly. Otherwise, you'll have to literally hack into a company's website and take what you want, if you really don't want to pay for it.
However, I also believe that it will also become easier and cheaper to obtain these things legally. Just look at the music industry. I remember when buying an album meant spending $20-$30. Now though, you can listen for free through a service like spotify or pandora, and can pay like $15 a month to listen to however many free songs you want. Or you can just go on Youtube and listen to music that way.

Another great example is Steam. While there is still a lot of regular gaming piracy(especially for indie games), Steam makes PC gaming so much more affordable, that it's made a lot more people just go ahead and buy the game, since it's less work to do so. Also, their addition of achievements and trading cards have also helped curb piracy. Since you're not able to get either if you get the game illegally.
Anyway, to sum this up. P2p sharing will eventually die, but the games should become easier and cheaper in the meantime.

The origins of piracy isn't just to make the games more affordable or even offer them free, the original intent of ripping and well cracking the games is to make these games reach parts of the world where these games would otherwise be unavailable. When I first heard of shared games through the internet, the original servers where these games are downloadable would be from foreign IPs and the cracked ones would be in a language originally not in English. If I recall correctly, most of the earliest games being shared at the time be it console or pc rooted from Japan. It's not really an issue of legality but rather of availability. They were of course intended more so in third world countries where the internet is a privilege not a right. I of course would rather purchase my games personally and proudly (even for eroge) but sadly there are no retailers in my country that would openly sell eroge and risk the wrath of the Church. That is an entirely different issue.

When it comes to music, foreign artists' albums aren't always available. Importing these products cost more than the product itself. Though I do relish in holding an actual hard copy.

---------------------

Though I've only been playing eroge for 1-2 years (yes its recent but I started with 90's games), I am quite picky with the titles I play and I rely my justification on story, it doesn't have to be good, just interesting, and so far, the new ones are kind of the same in more ways than one. Despite the lack of polish in the graphics and CGs of older games I do prefer their story and gameplay. Now everything is mostly at school with stock trope characters. Gone are the times when the developers actually put some thought and personality in their characters (though there are some that still do).

But on the the P2P sharing, it won't necessarily die as long as there are those willing to upload and share, and I trust in that.

 

[setuna1279]

Speaking about retailers, even when some companies want to expand their business oversea, it is pretty troublesome due to some certain feminist parties crying all loud about their rights as a woman being violated in these games. Shit even gets serious when those parties even sent the complaint to the Japanese government demanding taking extreme mearsures shutting down this industry. What a pain in the ass they are doing. I feel sorry for this industry not being able to take further step outside their domestic market.

 

[freeform]

the rapelay controversy didn't really change anything, prior to that it was still difficult to purchase eroge outside of japan and the only consequence of that bad press was for them to clamp down and make it even harder to get eroge outside of japan, because the japanese government considers eroge to be an embarrassment (along with doujins and regular porn and anything else involving eroticism, even if they do want to have eat their cake and have it too by promoting anime/manga culture as a cultural export). the problems have been that 1. for all their technology and infrastructure, japanese internet users have been bizarrely backward in terms of their file sharing software and habits, making it dead simple for anyone to figure out who they are, and 2. there were apparently only a handful of wealthy people ripping all of the games over the last few years, so when they arrested a few of them all the ones who managed to avoid the cops went to ground. the thread that popped up on here about the arrests earlier this year made this all pretty clear.

It's not that surprising that when the Japanese police started taking in uploaders that sharing slowed down. For one, the people who were uploading aren't anymore. What really affected it though, is the fact that it's now known that piracy is now being punished. P2p sharing is illegal. It's literally theft. It was only a matter of time before police caught on and started cracking down on it. The past 10-15 years have been like the wild west for the internet. It was new to the world, and there weren't really any rules or regulations on it, because no one knew the extent of what the internet was really capable of. Now that the internet is an integral part of every 1st world country in the world, piracy has become painfully obvious to everyone.
So, the police cracking down on it isn't a huge surprise. It wouldn't surprise me if they eventually started going after everyone, not just the uploaders. If/When that happens, that's when it's really over.
Piracy will always be around, just like regular theft. However, I think it's going to become increasingly more difficult, and p2p sharing will likely stop completely. At least on the scale it's on now. I'm sure people will still send their friends a game they want to share directly. Otherwise, you'll have to literally hack into a company's website and take what you want, if you really don't want to pay for it.
However, I also believe that it will also become easier and cheaper to obtain these things legally. Just look at the music industry. I remember when buying an album meant spending $20-$30. Now though, you can listen for free through a service like spotify or pandora, and can pay like $15 a month to listen to however many free songs you want. Or you can just go on Youtube and listen to music that way.
Another great example is Steam. While there is still a lot of regular gaming piracy(especially for indie games), Steam makes PC gaming so much more affordable, that it's made a lot more people just go ahead and buy the game, since it's less work to do so. Also, their addition of achievements and trading cards have also helped curb piracy. Since you're not able to get either if you get the game illegally.
Anyway, to sum this up. P2p sharing will eventually die, but the games should become easier and cheaper in the meantime.

haha that's ridiculous, it is literally impossible for the police of any first world country to arrest or prosecute even a significant minority of file-sharing users, because virtually anyone under the age of 35 is guilty of pirating some form of copyrighted material. there's no meaningful way to prosecute these people without throwing away millions of dollars and then what do you get? financial penalties amounting to tens of thousands of dollars, maximum? even beyond this, though, no major content producing organization, be it music, movies or games, would ever want to prosecute any meaningful number of p2p sharing users due to the huge backlash that would inevitably follow. this is why they've stopped prosecuting isolated users for downloading files and only go after the people doing the first shares.

 

[HatoriTakaya]

Whilst targeting the first release is now somewhat more effective than taking on the world. The amount of piracy occurring around the ages is actually across the board. Pretty sure that it would be impossible to target the right person since in Britain for example send letters en-masses to all household that pirated and ended up badly. Which involved elderly that doesn't even have access to internet but was send a legal letter of notice to pay around 1,000 British Pounds to avert being taken to court.

Putting that aside, it doesn't change the fact that only select few still is able to release these things without being caught unless they have set up the right network to distribute them safely from prosecutions from the production companies.