Controlling hallucinations.

[Yee199]

If our brain controls pretty much our entire body, why cant we just plunge ourselves inside our own little worlds where we control everything.

I know this happens in lucid dreams but that is only temporary.

If that's the only way, I never want to wake up.

Or does that happen when we die?

 

[Infamous]

it's because a majority of the things about ourselves are completely unconscious. asking why we can't create our own little world is like asking why you can't stop your own heart, or why you can't shut off physical pain. it's not very possible.

and we obviously can't tell you what happens when you die, cause we're all alive ^.^

 

[Yee199]

And what if we could control it!???

I heard some monks after mediating for a very long time, they learned how to control their heart beat.

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Hmm yeah they could slow their heartbeat and control their body better... Not sure about hallucinations though... Thats typically unwanted? There could be a danger if you cant tell hallucinations apart from real people anymore...

 

[Will98]

"In promulgating your esoteric cogitations and articulating your superficial sentimentalities, amicable, philosophical and psychological observations, beware of platitudinous ponderosities...."

-Cheap Trick

 

[Vivi]

Even if you could control your heartbeat or body, I guess you can't control your thoughts or true desires.
Creating your own world and immersing yourself in it would be the same as having hallucinations..Some people suffer from that..It's a mental/psychological illness, and those who have it can't control their hallucinations. Worst case, they don't even know they're hallucinating.

You might be able to create a world of your own inside your mind, and live in it, but you might not be able to wake up later on if it goes on for too long or if you strongly desire to stay there..
It could become your worst nightmare.
And when you come to realize it, you might find out that you've ruined the life you have in reality..

And hey, you can still do your best to create a real life for yourself where you can live happily and do what you want. The real world isn't that ugly..Well, it is xD, but still, no one but yourself can govern your own life, and lead it to either happiness or destruction.

I'm very interested in the idea though. I daydream everyday. I believe nothing can hinder the mind if it's strong enough, but don't forget that even minds can break. ;)

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Hmm... dreams interest me quite a bit~ Might be interesting if we were able to go into a dream world~

That reminds me of a world in that pendragon book though... people were all just sleeping since there was a machine which let them live in their dreams... There was some people left behind to take care of everyone else and they took turns dreaming... really doesnt seem like the best world.... @_@

 

[Vivi]

Ah, you know, this whole thing reminds me of a famous Chinese proverb I've read many times :

"Once upon a time I dreamed I was a butterfly,
fluttering hither and thither,
to all intents and purposes a butterfly.
I was conscious only of following my fancies as a butterfly,
and was unconscious of my individuality as a man.
Suddenly I woke, and there I lay, myself again.
Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly,
or whether I am now a butterfly dreaming I am a man."

I love it.. A very interesting concept.

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

The question of what is dream and what is reality...~ Hmm... well typically thats separated by a pinch ;p

 

[LioNeeZ]

I would actually like to pear into other dreams and take over them, too bad I live in reality

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Hmm... yeah it would be nice to see other's dreams...~

 

[Will98]

Hmm... yeah it would be nice to see other's dreams...~

Ummm.... no? You would see 95% of the time: Porn, guns, food, porn, games, porn..... I believe not being able to see peoples' dreams is a good thing.

 

[Exaelia]

Ummm.... no? You would see 95% of the time: Porn, guns, food, porn, games, porn..... I believe not being able to see peoples' dreams is a good thing.

Pssht. In my dreams, there'd be red pandas, giant pandas, ice cream, cotton candy, and Andy Biersack.

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

My dreams at least are random adventurey stuff ;p Maybe pick who we get to see~ Atm mine is dota filled =w=

 

[Panda]

If our brain controls pretty much our entire body, why cant we just plunge ourselves inside our own little worlds where we control everything.

I know this happens in lucid dreams but that is only temporary.

If that's the only way, I never want to wake up.

Or does that happen when we die?

Like others have said, it's impossible to hallucinate simply by wanting to hallucinate (without the effect of disorders or drugs). The only way to hallucinate "on purpose", is to actually believe that what you're are seeing and experiencing is the real thing. People with disorders can't distinguish reality from hallucinations easily. People who take drugs and hallucinate can't tell easily, whether that is because they're under influence and their thinking is impaired, or because the hallucinations actually seem real.

What you are proposing is that there is a way to intentionally want to hallucinate, while being able to tell the difference from the real world and hallucinations, thus making our own "reality", while at the same time being able to tell your reality from the real one. That would be hard to do, since people are coming into this already with the idea to hallucinate.

You can't easily trick your brain to disregard parts of reality; your brain only gets mistaken when something's wrong. So if you know you're hallucinating (which would mean you're not even hallucinating, since you can tell the difference), you'd have to be in full 100% conscious remembrance that you are indeed hallucinating. It's completely contradictory to the definition of a hallucination, and it's also a bit of a paradox.

So to sum: I guess you could hallucinate (drugs, not sleeping for a couple days, having a mental disorder), but there wouldn't be a way to control your hallucinations. In fact, most hallucinations are negative. Many people who hallucinate on a daily basis live in constant paranoia, because they can't tell reality from their own mind.

The closest thing to controlling your "hallucinations" is lucid dreaming. But it's not really considered a hallucination then, is it?

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Hmm actually hallucinations can be controlled somewhat... They can be guided i think? Lucid dreams... youre not always aware that its a dream are you? Or idk =w= Perhaps... Your idea is that the person cant be aware of hallucinations being fake? :/ I do think that some people are aware that a hallucination isnt real even while they hallucinate...

 

[Leia]

rather than lucid dreaming, i think the next thing closest to a hallucination would daydreaming :3 because honestly i think that sometimes even lucid dreams have their limitations, you can notice that your dreaming but most of the time thats it before you wake up and forget everything. though when it comes to daydreaming, unless you have a good mind projection and the ability to blank out its sorta hard to create your own little world for yourself, though most of the time just by staring into blankness your mind begins to wonder and think of different possibilities, i think that when its times like these that you can actually start imagining yourself doing the stuff you want to and seeing the stuff you wish to see. i wont disagree with what the others are saying /thoughiwouldntrecommenddrugs/ but if its escaping reality you seek, i think daydreaming would be a nice solution, when you want and wherever you want :'3 be it in a test, on the train or simply right before you go sleep.

bottom line, daydreaming is probably a nicer way to say hallucination without aids, i think its a second to none alternative solution x) and an easy one to control at that seeing how even those on drugs, /dontdodrugs/ cant help but see what they see even if they dont want to see it which then leads to their downfall :3

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Hmm you can also hallucinate by starving for two days or so? Safeish compared to some...

 

[FinalPyre]

Just to be clear, lucid dreams are dreams where you realize you are dreaming. Before you realize that you are dreaming, it is not a lucid dream.

 

[Panda]

Hmm actually hallucinations can be controlled somewhat... They can be guided i think? Lucid dreams... youre not always aware that its a dream are you? Or idk =w= Perhaps... Your idea is that the person cant be aware of hallucinations being fake? :/ I do think that some people are aware that a hallucination isnt real even while they hallucinate...

I don't think hallucinations can be guided-- they only occur when mechanisms in the brain distinguishing reality from make-believe aren't working properly. But you can't really control what you see. Like someone else said, the definition of lucid dreaming is to know that you are in a dream. If you didn't know, you wouldn't be able to control it, because you think it's reality.

Yes, some people are aware they are hallucinating. I'm talking more about the type who have a mental disorder who hallucinate so much, so realistically, that they can't even tell they're hallucinating; I'm not talking about the people who take hallucinogens and see abnormal images for that brief moment. If in that situation, they realized that they could see/hear things that other people couldn't, then yes: they'd know that they're hallucinating, but it's not possible to assume that they'd know it all the time. The way a person would know they are hallucinating is if they see things that they don't regularly see/hear things they wouldn't regularly hear. Likewise, if you hallucinate all the time, what can you relate a hallucination to?

To actually lapse into a hallucinating state and be able to control it, you'd have to realize you're hallucinating. Much like lucid dreaming: you have to realize the state you're in. Then your hallucinations need to be so realistic, that you'd think it's reality. If your hallucinations don't seem real, it's not a hallucination.

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Guess i just have a different idea of a hallucination then =w= How about hypnotism? Would that count?

 

[Leia]

its kinda funny because i was thinking about this before i went to sleep and i had a dream where i was dreaming of myself having a lucid dream OTL unfortunately that was basically all i remembered until i woke up by the sound of my phone ringing XD

[MENTION=65714]Panda[/MENTION]; depth right there. what you seem to saying is like an endless cycle but i also agree with you c: but its kinda funny because of how you stated "Then your hallucinations need to be so realistic, that you'd think it's reality. If your hallucinations don't seem real, it's not a hallucination." when i think about it now that you have mentioned it, how exactly do people realise they're hallucinating? people often realise they're hallucinating when they realise something is not real or not really meant to be there, but once they realise that, is it really a hallucination anymore? like you've stated "hallucinations that dont seem real is not a hallucination" once realising their in a hallucination they often snap back to reality so i wonder if people really do realise during a hallucination or afterwards. you look at the actual people who are hallucinating and you wonder, "do they know what kind of situation they're in?" often the answer is no, thats why its said that they are hallucinating, just thinking about it is starting to make my head run in circles XD

i dont believe there is a definite line between hallucination and reality, when people hallucinate, they only realise so because they are back in reality, without reality there would be no hallucinations and vice versa, its funny how the two intertwine and i think this topic is surprisingly really fun to talk about XD

 

[Vivi]

Hypnotism? That's another thing entirely. Your mind is being controlled by someone else, and your consciousness is nearly all gone.. It's a state of mind-blankness, and I don't think you can even 'see' or perceive things while you're in that state. All you see and do is controlled by the hypnotist, and they somehow try to communicate with or inject certain pictures or ideas into your subconsciousness. Or something like that. It's what I think...

Things are getting pretty interesting..

I usually love talks about Psychology or anything related to it. ^__^

 

[Panda]

@Leia

What separates a hallucination from a random image generated by the brain is the realistic feel. The hallucination can be entirely surreal, but it will still seem realistic, if not real. Someone can see images of mythological creatures (with a prior understanding that they're mostly/if not all myth), but still feel as it were real.

I suppose I didn't word it as accurately as I wanted to; hallucinations involve the false perception of something (from the five senses) appearing to be real. Someone that is hallucinating may know that they are hallucinating to some extent, but the hallucination they are experiencing still would have felt real. Some people don't know until they're out of the hallucination; others may still think it was real. Whether the subject believes the hallucination or not is irrelevant. The only thing that would contradict the definition of a hallucination is if 100% of all people who have hallucinated have known it was false while in the hallucination (which would mean that the hallucination didn't feel real). Since hallucinations feel real, there will always be at least 1 person who believes that it is real. Err... It's weak logic, but it's true for the most part.


@samyeung46

Hypnosis doesn't reach to a mind controlling/hallucination inducing stage. In fact, a lot of us have already experienced hypnotic trances through reading, watching a movie, driving, etc. Hypnosis only brings us to a state of greater susceptibility to suggestions, a hyper-attentive state, and a heightened sense of focus. You are still aware of your surroundings--you're not in a stage of total subconscious.

Though, the main point with hypnosis is that you choose whether to be hypnotised or not. If you believe in hypnosis and choose to be hypnotised, you most likely will go into that state. (This kinda makes me question the credibility of hypnosis...)
But anyway: there was an experiment done where the hypnotists told the participants a certain shape was a certain colour. When out of their hypnotic stage and shown the shapes, they saw the shapes as that certain colour, even if it wasn't. This was only done on two people, so it's not a reliable source of proof, but it's something.

Even if there was a way to hypnotize someone to the point where they experienced things that were told to them, it's not very reliable. Besides, it would be alike to being a puppet-- everything you experience is controlled by someone else. This is on the basis that hypnosis is what it's said to be. Frankly, I'm a skeptic.

 

[FinalPyre]

Well you do live inside your mind; the entire world around you could be a 'hallucination' and you would have no way of knowing (it kind of already is, even). The parts that perceive your senses are completely automated, however, so they are not influenced by your conscious thought. You could try to believe that you believe that you are seeing something that isn't there, but it is rather difficult, and I doubt the results would be the same because you are only changing what you think you are seeing, not the data reaching your brain that it interprets as what it is seeing.

Just as a guess: people who hallucinate have some miss-wiring in their brain that crosses some of their subconscious thoughts with the sensory data, and combines them in the output to your conscious. Introducing strange chemical combinations to your brain could help you temporarily achieve effects kind of like this, as they could interfere with data in transit in various ways (drugs/hallucinogens).