Visual Novel Cafe

[setuna1279]

The current trend of going all "moe" is pretty understandable. It sells well and you sure know that you can get some benefits of it. In term of marketing, moe theme is pretty much like a cashcow where you don't have to work too much in order to get some money. Some companies may constantly release moe theme in order to get money for their serious project. A novel with decent plot is definitely harder and more complex to make than a normal moe one.

 

[Animaksiat]

Back then, sometimes, it's took so much effort for so little sexual content (Take WA or the first ToHeart, CTRL did not exist back then, and in both you have to work quite a bit to go to the correct place. You are clicking until your arms wear out all the way until you get to that little sexual content at the end) that it's almost not worth fapping over. More 'novel' than 'ero', so to say. Now? Nitrous, and like you said, moe...stories seem to move quicker, too, from what I feel recently...

But come to think of it, I really cannot handle heavy [fiction] reading...guess that's why I can keep on tolerating what is dominant (I think people call it harem), and just read them actively without going critical. I'm no action guy, either, so I stick with the normal (puppy) love stories ones, most of the time.

...or I just adapt well to mediocrity...

indeed at that time there's no CTRL... but for exchange they have F3 which served as the same function. and there's actually some games that had quite a numbers of ero-scene. the one you mention probably from Key, or Basil who does majority on VN theme... if you tried Zone nor Cherrysoft you'd know the differences and your opinion would change i think.

The current trend of going all "moe" is pretty understandable. It sells well and you sure know that you can get some benefits of it. In term of marketing, moe theme is pretty much like a cashcow where you don't have to work too much in order to get some money. Some companies may constantly release moe theme in order to get money for their serious project. A novel with decent plot is definitely harder and more complex to make than a normal moe one.

yes, i agree... but it also like strangling your own neck. because of it, Nukiges spread quickly. people are getting used to had less conversation, more sex scene as long as the heroine are 'moe'! which it will make no differences with porn.
due to this more scenario writer leave the eroge company and start writing LNs or become script writer for anime, since the eroge companies refuse to pay up their standard tariff.
take akabeii soft for example, after Loose Boy left, they hardly ever create a best selling game anymore... G-Senjou was the last game he wrote.

the only company that stable is Alicesoft, Eushully, AXL and Debonosu i think... they have their intern relation between staff and the Illustrator there also work as a co-producers as well... as for debonosu, Yamamoto-sensei is the owner.

 

[pingtoryan]

From one [scene] to three, then four...and even more...

...how much, or rather, on what condition, is the nukige line drawn, anyway?

 

[Animaksiat]

From one [scene] to three, then four...and even more...

...how much, or rather, on what condition, is the nukige line drawn, anyway?

Nukige is an eroge that based on H-scene instead of Stories... they goes by some standard of 1 plot only... NTR plot is the most booming at this time, then goes hypnotis plot, incest plot, rape plot, etc etc
each Nukige's provide move over 5-8 scene per character.

current famous companies who running in Nukige are Atelier Kaguya, Atelier Sakura, Softhouse-seal, Lune, Interheart

 

[pingtoryan]

Can a game have H-scenes so numerous yet story driven enough that it is not nukige?

Spoiler: some experience

I've played one of those once upon a time (Imoutojiru) and H-scenes are practically there every time you turn a corner...I guess that frequency is what you call a nukige. Many of the games I played got four as staple number...

 

[Animaksiat]

Can a game have H-scenes so numerous yet story driven enough that it is not nukige?

Spoiler: some experience

I've played one of those once upon a time (Imoutojiru) and H-scenes are practically there every time you turn a corner...I guess that frequency is what you call a nukige. Many of the games I played got four as staple number...

imouto jiru is a nukige... i believe it was atelier kaguya's product at around 2002-2004... the plot is so simple, you collect your sister's juice to complete the bottle otherwise you'll be cursed. but as answer to your question above, the answer in Yes... take a look of Alicesoft, Softhouse-chara they had numerous of H-scene but still have lots of plot and stories that you couldn't probably complete in a day or two... unless you CTRLing

 

[pingtoryan]

From there, I'd like to think that a nukige is defined by an ecchi-centric plot...thinking about this any longer is going to burst my head...

I'm beginning to think that eroges, as time passes, takes more and more [EV]CG frames to accomplish stuff (I'm talking H-scenes, of course) than the past, where it's just going in and blast...what else would explain how swollen the HCG amount has been in games nowadays?

 

[Animaksiat]

we talking about the HCG only? or about all CG that a game has (included the character standing poses and faces)... no matter, i'll just answer both then

for a big sized game, says about 3-4GB... it contains around 200-400 CGs including BG... as for the characters almost every game in that size had around 400-600 cgs for the characters, leave the CG scene / event alone.

and for little size game that goes around 300mb-600mb, it depends on the plot it contains around a 100 CG maybe less

as for eroscene CG, each companies has different style... Atelier Kaguya (especially Honky-Tonk Division) had more than 200-300 HCG, but that because they don't have any normal event CG.
taking out on Pulltop Latte, i think they had 5-10 HCG per scene.

a friend of mine, あきのしん he work as an free ero illustrator, once told me, that he drew around 50-100 pictures on every game he was assigned to...
all of them are Nukige Company... Appetite, Spindoll, Amolite, Eroit, etc etc

 

[setuna1279]

There are also other stable companies such as Yuzusoft, Navel, axe (though most of their products now are remade of the previous series and ported to PS3 and Xbox, making not real an eroge company anymore), akabeisoft (not the main branch anymore but stuffs from akatsuki work are still quite good with some titles like Rui wa tomo and & or a recent title Reminiscence), Minatosoft,... Quite a few big name still stable with decent plot.

 

[pingtoryan]

Come to think of it, [ero]VNs are getting remakes into other platforms (even mobile), apparently free of hentai...a lot of those are popping up lately as far as I can see.

But why would one play VNs in the living room and/or with speakers blazing, anyway?

 

[Animaksiat]

Come to think of it, [ero]VNs are getting remakes into other platforms (even mobile), apparently free of hentai...a lot of those are popping up lately as far as I can see.

But why would one play VNs in the living room and/or with speakers blazing, anyway?

you would surprised if you see this... another acquaintance of mine, took a shot secretly inside a train when she was on the way to her apartment after work around 11PM

 

[pingtoryan]

you would surprised if you see this... another acquaintance of mine, took a shot secretly inside a train when she was on the way to her apartment after work around 11PM

What...sorcery...is this?

 

[Animaksiat]

There are also other stable companies such as Yuzusoft, Navel, axe (though most of their products now are remade of the previous series and ported to PS3 and Xbox, making not real an eroge company anymore), akabeisoft (not the main branch anymore but stuffs from akatsuki work are still quite good with some titles like Rui wa tomo and & or a recent title Reminiscence), Minatosoft,... Quite a few big name still stable with decent plot.

here's another nice facts about companies you mentioned... Yuzusoft was almost disbanded when ExE sales wasn't as like they planned or expected at 2007, they got fresh fund from the sales of Tenshin Ranman in 2008 and more from royalty of PS2. with it they survive until now, and because of Tenshin Ranman, Yuzu-soft become very famous. with it, Kobuichi become the pillar of Yuzusoft.

the same goes to Navel... after Suzuhira Hiro left the company at 2006 upon completing Tick Tack and Ne Pon Rai Pon, Navel became dull with Nishimata Aoi as their only Illustrator, they make a comeback with 俺たちに翼はない in 2008. with their new fund, they're trying to make another comeback by remaking Shuffle! that was sells at 2004, but without Suzuhira Hiro... it didn't come as expected. Sekai Seifuku Kanojo also didn't sells too good at 2010. though it manage to enter best selling game in getchu rank. that's why they're persuading Hiro to return to Navel again, and as a result つり乙 and 乙女理論 sells so well.

Akabei Soft on the contrary are going up and down... it's because they're keep changing their staffs... some sells and some don't, you should noticed that the staff of ruitomo which makes it sells. it goes the same with akatsuki works... i kinda doubt with the leaving of Iizuki Tasuku from Hibiki Works that they're product game would still like Lovely Cation or Shiden.

as for Minato-soft, they had their first game at 2007, so i'd say the company is kind of new... more over the factor why Majikoi was so famous at start in 2009 was because the director Takahiro (Tsuyokiss and Nee, Chanto Shiyou yo scenario writer) work hard for the scenario.

What...sorcery...is this?

this is what i mentioned before of my illustrators friend finding times to do their hobby... but of course not like this!

 

[pingtoryan]

Just rummaged through the sales figures in Getchu after above conversation's put up...while not the best thing to based an observation on it does give something to think about...on what is familiar to me:
- August manages to stay on/near top every time it gets something out (even now, with Dreaming Sheep).
- For Hooksoft, Strawberry Nauts/PriministAr seems to hold up better than Sugirly Wish/Lovely Quest (note that the latter two share at least one scenerio writer, while the former two shares two illustrators and scenerio writers completely different), for some reason in their respective time. With Rakko quitting, only time will tell what Hooksoft will have to offer.
- In October 2013 list, Walmore came out, and somehow the original Walroma also made it up that particular list of top sales, too (considering that everything else is 2013/10, seems out of ordinary).
- ToHeart 2 (Xrated) shot straight through for 2005, and Another Days is only below Fortune Arterial in 2008.
- Moonstone actually does not do so well when it comes to sales figure.
- Illusion games are not too well off in sales figure, but they are all the rage among (apparently) some gaijins (esp. AG3, that one's almost timeless).

Sounds like I have bad taste...and yes, I do have a PSP fully laden with HCGs (Game? Just Vagrant Story [barely 100mb for such great of a game] and a couple SNES/GBA titles)...Apple devices are too clumsy to load in stuff, so I wouldn't do that even if I can.

 

[Animaksiat]

Just rummaged through the sales figures in Getchu after above conversation's put up...while not the best thing to based an observation on it does give something to think about...on what is familiar to me:
- August manages to stay on/near top every time it gets something out (even now, with Dreaming Sheep).
- For Hooksoft, Strawberry Nauts/PriministAr seems to hold up better than Sugirly Wish/Lovely Quest (note that the latter two share at least one scenerio writer, while the former two shares two illustrators and scenerio writers completely different), for some reason in their respective time. With Rakko quitting, only time will tell what Hooksoft will have to offer.
- In October 2013 list, Walmore came out, and somehow the original Walroma also made it up that particular list of top sales, too (considering that everything else is 2013/10, seems out of ordinary).
- ToHeart 2 (Xrated) shot straight through for 2005, and Another Days is only below Fortune Arterial in 2008.
- Moonstone actually does not do so well when it comes to sales figure.
- Illusion games are not too well off in sales figure, but they are all the rage among (apparently) some gaijins (esp. AG3, that one's almost timeless).

Sounds like I have bad taste...and yes, I do have a PSP fully laden with HCGs (Game? Just Vagrant Story [barely 100mb for such great of a game] and a couple SNES/GBA titles)...Apple devices are too clumsy to load in stuff, so I wouldn't do that even if I can.

-What makes August always sells, is that they never dissapointed their fans... good CG and a goddamn good story! this is what keeps them alive for over 10 years

-Ricotta are still too depend on Komori Kei, even though they manage to make a balance between the story and the ero, i don't wanna think what will happen if Komori Kei leave Ricotta.

-moonstone barely complete their norma everytime they release a game.

as for hooksoft, i hardly play their product after HoneyComing in 2007, last time i played was Sakura Bitmap in 2010 and i don't quite like it... good story, but i can't remember the reason why i didn't like it.

 

[pingtoryan]

Since Honeycoming (Clair's the ultimate winner of Rakko's last running campaign, by the way...but the runner-ups were both from SuGirly Wish) the games involving Rakko didn't seem to fare so well (I wouldn't blame that bloody excellent artwork throughout, I'd like to think that it must be from somewhere else). Sakura Bitmap is on my to-go list...before that I'll just take a leisurely cruise through MeltyMoment one more time and find out what the "MeltyMoment" stuff in Omake does (already got all letters)...

...still, I wonder what game introduced quickjumping (my take would be Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai, that's the first time I see that function and it spreaded throughout a couple 2013 releases - that function even made it to Kirikiri2 engine).

 

[Animaksiat]

Since Honeycoming (Clair's the ultimate winner of Rakko's last running campaign, by the way...but the runner-ups were both from SuGirly Wish) the games involving Rakko didn't seem to fare so well (I wouldn't blame that bloody excellent artwork throughout, I'd like to think that it must be from somewhere else). Sakura Bitmap is on my to-go list...before that I'll just take a leisurely cruise through MeltyMoment one more time and find out what the "MeltyMoment" stuff in Omake does (already got all letters)...

...still, I wonder what game introduced quickjumping (my take would be Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai, that's the first time I see that function and it spreaded throughout a couple 2013 releases - that function even made it to Kirikiri2 engine).

you mean quickjump on backlog? i think it was first introduced on 2010 or 2011... can't remember exactly what was it though...

 

[pingtoryan]

you mean quickjump on backlog? i think it was first introduced on 2010 or 2011... can't remember exactly what was it though...

Quickjump.

The one that lets you go back to previous pages (and I mean moving the game back there, not just text).

...what's backlog, anyway?

 

[Animaksiat]

Quickjump.

The one that lets you go back to previous pages (and I mean moving the game back there, not just text).

...what's backlog, anyway?

yeah... that's what backlog, you just said it yourself... previous page

and as i answered... the system was first introduced around 2010 or 2011... maybe it was august's Eustia... or maybe something else, can't remember it precisely if you play hundreds of games every year

 

[pingtoryan]

Yes...Eustia indeed had it, but it's not as obvious as their next game...without the manual, anyway.

 

[Animaksiat]

Yes...Eustia indeed had it, but it's not as obvious as their next game...without the manual, anyway.

manual? what manual???

just noticed... looks like Baldr Sky Zero 2 wont get any delay now... still there's more than 2-3 weeks, i hope they on schedules

 

[pingtoryan]

manual? what manual???

Why, the game manual, of course...but I can only assume in this case.

For Eustia, the quickjump is not very obvious after simply pulling up the back log because it is activated by hovering over and click the text themselves - in the later installation (i.e. Daito) the quickjump is in the form of a button that rest besides the text in the back log...

 

[Animaksiat]

hmm... i never noticed that... hardly ever use backlog

 

[Terumi]

A small rambling from a small time player since 2010 (me) :

Never really cared about the sizes nor number of CGs/BGs per game. Things are rather simple to me; if the game's beyond the usual 4GB, its big, probably loads of HD CGs inside the game along with a longer plot. Smaller ones have rarely stunned me with sheer number of images, which I am still reasonably happy with if I ever download the games or CG packs.

For one, I started ero-gaming only in late 2010. I believe by then, the industry was probably developed enough to produce enough CGs for fap purposes whatsoever, I remember I had a killing streak for downloading packs and deleting those smaller or extremely big ones which I didnt like after viewing. As my proficiency with reading the language was still horror, I only started my first ever game in Princess Lover very late that year. Took awhile to knock down the kanjis and recognising the hira/kata which I only spent a short time memorising. While I can understand the voices 100%, it was hard on me when it was the protaganist's analog/monologue.

After clearing Princess Lover, it eventually opened the flood gates of games for me, basely the Atelier Kaguya games, among some other titles during that time. Atelier Kaguya games were extremely easy for me, I loved Choco Chip's art dearly back then. Coupled with my love for oppai, AK was like the complete package I could have hoped, even despite of the nukiges (and some bashings of the genre/theme of nukis) which I was too green to understand back then.

At then, obviously again I was too green to examine the industry as a whole, neither could I do even now even for anime or manga or light novels. Stumbling upon ASF in late 2010, and meeting the other well-established and long time players, I was once again convinced I was too small a fish in a gigantic pond. As so, I tried to satisfy my likes and preferences based on monthly games and started noting the creditable and more popular companies and artists. Heck, I still cant name a single eroge scenario writer or director even till now. Just goes to show my low-level-ness again only. Still, I tried my best to start on other genres and monving from nukiges to others. My resume aint full of nukiges only mind you! :) However I do believe the pool of other games I played aint much to boast about either. Based loosely on recommendations and popularity/sales and moved by art/plot, I still continue to seek out games these days despite the whining industry. I know its hard, the moe factors and simple to produce/write stories are too easily available these days that people eventually start moving into nukiges just to past the time or fap to delicious scenes with gorgeous females. I havent had the best of times these past 2 years because of some full time commitments, with my backlog even piling up, I cant help but regret and reflect on the times which I procrastinated too much while playing.

I still much to add, but I cant collect my thoughts well this moment. Will leave the ramblings of the various companies later on. :D

 

[pingtoryan]

When you do your own mining as opposed to just getting CG packs, the numbers will become rather stuck to your head as you run through them...just sayin'