Frankly these days I only play Rejet games, Black Wolves Saga may be a few years old but it's still my favorite, Ken Ga Kimi was gorgeous. Bad medicine was a little weird. Alice = Alice was way too weird.
Bloody Call is fanastic, I enjoyed it's PSP addon omake as well.
I wish there were more proactive MC's though, I'm a little tired of doormat characters that are an obvious self insert bait (coughStarryskycough)
An otome game that I can get the feeling of being inside of the game something like the MC meets many characters in only 1 route and based on what the MC choose it can be different ending. And for game like this I prefer it to use long period(using half a day is great too) and have lots of CGs.. I don't mind the genre of the game but must at least have romance end or I won't be interest at all to read..(Eventhough i said it like this but there are some that doesn't related with romance but still interesting..) But I also like playing short otome game without romance... :)
Wait does visual novel include as in otome game?
My ideal otome game? I don't have any real preferences, but all-in-all, I want:
1) A protagonist that isn't a total Mary Sue. Please replace the Set-Feminism-Back-by-50-Years Tsukikos and Yuis with Naalas and Tomoes, xthnx. It's especially frustrating for the games to push me into the "BE HER" angle, since I'm rarely anything like these "ordinary girls".
2) Male characters that aren't just idealised Gary Stus. It makes me feel so shallow that the only prerequisite for a male character in an otome game to become capturable is to be attractive. A great example of this is Starry Sky. Who other than Iku actually has proper, completely deal-breaking character flaws?
3) Characters that aren't just assigned based on archetypal trends. Especially the classic, "Womaniser", "Childhood Friend (who is often tsundere as well)", "Tsundere" and "Yandere" set-up. Rejet is the king of pigeonholing characters in this manner... especially since Diabolik Lovers got so popular. Their websites, especially the drama CDs, often highlight the guys in this manner as "keywords".
4) Keep the childhood friend thing to a minimum. God, it's like every game has this. Especially in a setting based more on realism. How many opposing-gendered friends stay lifelong friends and romantic partners? I'm not trying to be sexist, but it's very common for younger opposite gender friends to go their separate ways when they get older. Does this hit otome gamers' moe spots more than I care to know?
5) A set-up that isn't a blatant show of laziness. Too many lazy set-ups designed to easily have all of the characters in one convenient place. High school settings pretty much exist for this reason alone, I swear. Sometimes they're all in the same class. L-A-Z-Y!
6) Stop "loosely adapting" existing works. "Can't think of anything original... I know! I'll adapt [X], but pretty much in name only. Researching the original material would take too long since we need to devote our time porting our bestsellers with barely any new content to cash in on the PS Vita trend."
I love otome games and visual novels, so I doubt I'll ever stop playing them. However, I wish companies realise that "ZOMG HOT GUYS" isn't the only market out there. Many of us want more games with "meat" like Black Wolves Saga and Koezaru wa Akai Hana.
My ideal otome game? I don't have any real preferences, but all-in-all, I want:
1) A protagonist that isn't a total Mary Sue. Please replace the Set-Feminism-Back-by-50-Years Tsukikos and Yuis with Naalas and Tomoes, xthnx. It's especially frustrating for the games to push me into the "BE HER" angle, since I'm rarely anything like these "ordinary girls".
2) Male characters that aren't just idealised Gary Stus. It makes me feel so shallow that the only prerequisite for a male character in an otome game to become capturable is to be attractive. A great example of this is Starry Sky. Who other than Iku actually has proper, completely deal-breaking character flaws?
3) Characters that aren't just assigned based on archetypal trends. Especially the classic, "Womaniser", "Childhood Friend (who is often tsundere as well)", "Tsundere" and "Yandere" set-up. Rejet is the king of pigeonholing characters in this manner... especially since Diabolik Lovers got so popular. Their websites, especially the drama CDs, often highlight the guys in this manner as "keywords".
4) Keep the childhood friend thing to a minimum. God, it's like every game has this. Especially in a setting based more on realism. How many opposing-gendered friends stay lifelong friends and romantic partners? I'm not trying to be sexist, but it's very common for younger opposite gender friends to go their separate ways when they get older. Does this hit otome gamers' moe spots more than I care to know?
5) A set-up that isn't a blatant show of laziness. Too many lazy set-ups designed to easily have all of the characters in one convenient place. High school settings pretty much exist for this reason alone, I swear. Sometimes they're all in the same class. L-A-Z-Y!
6) Stop "loosely adapting" existing works. "Can't think of anything original... I know! I'll adapt [X], but pretty much in name only. Researching the original material would take too long since we need to devote our time porting our bestsellers with barely any new content to cash in on the PS Vita trend."
I love otome games and visual novels, so I doubt I'll ever stop playing them. However, I wish companies realise that "ZOMG HOT GUYS" isn't the only market out there. Many of us want more games with "meat" like Black Wolves Saga and Koezaru wa Akai Hana.
This, pretty much all of it. I feel like there's too much stress on 'omg bois' and too little on actual story these days.
*SIGH*
And yes the whole Alice in Wonderland popularity is getting out of hand there, at first it was interesting but now there are so many Alice games, Including all the Kuni ones, Trick or Alice, Alice = Alice, that it feels like someone needs an originality pill.
I like historical storyline, like most of you mentioned here. Ken ga Kimi is beautiful not just the art and the Seiyuus.
What I liked about the game the most was, that they have experience something more or less tragic depending on the Char you are capturing. Thats why I like Miyako too they all have their suffering and tragic stories. Well maybe it's just TV Series influence that's why I like Dramatical Stories at the moment. I have been watching too much Game of Thrones and some other depressing Series that sometimes I just want to kill everyone so the Series finally ends and no more suffering.
I rly hate it when rape scenarios happen esp when it happens for bad ends. It's very jarring to see the same character whom u got the happy end for... to suddenly become a rapist (coz of bad decisions). Ugh, i rather get ends where the guy dies or the guy leaves. Don't rape anyone -_-
Also, I'd like less of dumb heroines. Not knowing how to shoot a gun isn't dumb, but blindly walking into danger DESPITE THE WARNING SIGNS??? Now that's dumb.
I like my otome games with lots and lots of bad endings. Not necessarily bad endings involving R18. Just bad endings with gore if possible, y'know? Blood will work too. Dead people would be nice. Excellent soundtrack. AND PLEASE PASS THE BECHDEL TEST AT ANY POINT IN THE GAME. Id love it if a game does-away with inserting women just there for competition. and developers put in some girls to be friends with MC. Also MC must have low-tolerance for the boy’s bull (HEY YURIKO THANKS FOR DOING THAT IN FUJITA’S ROUTE).
Also as long as the game doesn't involve some sort of mythology, or have two guys or more who like the girl in the same route, NTR (which applies from otoge to eroge) andfantasy-elements like fairies or smth in a plot that can actually work without them?
Hmm... I would say in order :
1) Supernatural settings
2) Love Story (I want to see how the relationship is deepened, not a sudden "I love you !"...)
3) NO YANDERE PLEASE
4) Heroine with the most important vital organ (in short, a brain)
5) Heroine with a personality (not a random character who's so kind that every guy falls for her)
5) If R18 contents, required consent. Actually, I would say it should make the relationship deepen and not the "and he can do whatever he wants" thing... it pisses me off.
Erm... I think these are the main points for me...
I rly hate it when rape scenarios happen esp when it happens for bad ends. It's very jarring to see the same character whom u got the happy end for... to suddenly become a rapist (coz of bad decisions). Ugh, i rather get ends where the guy dies or the guy leaves. Don't rape anyone -_-
Also, I'd like less of dumb heroines. Not knowing how to shoot a gun isn't dumb, but blindly walking into danger DESPITE THE WARNING SIGNS??? Now that's dumb.
I really don't understand why a lot of otome games (mostly +18 ones, but still) are so fascinated with rape/rapey-ish situations.
I could really do without all the rape in games like Trick or Alice...
I really don't understand why a lot of otome games (mostly +18 ones, but still) are so fascinated with rape/rapey-ish situations.
I could really do without all the rape in games like Trick or Alice...
First of all, I wonder why Trick or Alice seems to be the go-to otome game to highlight rape content. True, it's written by Hiyo, but it actually has one or two rape scenes. I would bring up Akazukin to Mayoi no Mori, which has a high rape content considering it's story-centric and not a purpose-made nukige. Not only that, but to reach the best endings, I remember them not being avoidable. Unavoidable rape to reach a good ending? I'd say Akazukin to Mayoi no Mori deserves the flack it receives from the non-Japanese otome community far more than Trick or Alice.
The fact of the matter is, rape is a popular fantasy amongst both men and women, particularly in Japan. I remember reading a statistic from a 2003 study that said that about 20% of Japanese pornography contains rape. Women are encouraged to be innocent and virginal, yet sexually available. You can commonly see this with their female idols (such as AKB48) and the types of female anime characters that get very popular. This is also why virgin porn is very popular as well. As a part of this "innocent, but available" thing, women are encouraged not to take the initiative in sexual encounters. How many otome games have women in charge that AREN'T depicted as a slut, "mind-raped/fucked" or a whore? Very, very, very few. Part of this isn't just about being into rape, but not making the protagonist "sexual" for fear of her being seen as a slut. Or some writers just can't comprehend being sexually in charge due to this cultural upbringing, so submissive protagonists are all they feel as though they can write about.
I don't want to derail this too far, so I'll try and confine it to otome games. It may sound very weird, but think about it: how many rapist characters are physically unattractive in otome games? Pretty much 1% of them, right? The fantasy isn't just about a very "authentic-looking" rape fantasy- by this, I mean the characters are not consensually sexually active people acting out a rape fantasy like some real life couples do, but somebody is actually getting raped.
The very basic element of the fantasy seems to be that a super-attractive guy wants you so badly that he can't control himself. I can assure you that the rape culture in otome games would not be nearly as extensive if the perpetrators weren't physically attractive, borderline Gary Stus. Also, it's common to add "moe" traits to these rapists, so their "cuteness/moe-ness" afterwards can be used to make readers "forgive" the character's act. It's also common to give "excuses" to these "hot rapist guys", ranging from poor upbringing to something as vacuous as "stress".
For instance, how many people defend:
Saburou from Chou no Doku Hana no Kusari? Yes, he's a side character. Yes, him raping Yuriko was played for drama, and wasn't at all supposed to be titilating since it pretty much happens off-screen- not to mention that he's ugly, likely from a poor background because of his job as a servant, is low on the social ladder, is unpopular and hinted to be incompetent at his job. He isn't shown to have any redeeming qualities whatsoever. It's like the devs made sure his rape can't possibly be seen as a "good thing" by characterising Saburou to be so undesirable. They knew that making Saburou attractive would take away the "horror" of what happened to Yuriko due to the likelihood of their readers not seeing this event as tragic if Saburou were attractive.
This is purely hypothetical, but imagine if popular characters like Kanata and Suzuya from Starry Sky raped Tsukiko. They both fit the bill of typical character "types" that would still be liked by most of the Japanese community even if they did such a thing to her. Kanata is a tsundere, whose shyness in romance would give him the "inexperienced" excuse and perhaps his illness may be seen as a "stressor". Plus his "cute" tsun-tsun ways would be used to endear players to him afterwards. Suzuya is hinted to have yandere-like tendencies, so his "mad jealousy" would likely be seen as a "justification", or worse, as a desirable trait, since it makes the readers feel "wanted". It may be "flattering" for a perfect guy like Suzuya to want you that much.
An example in R18+ otome games would be:
Ookami-san, who (in)famously 180-ed into a cold-hearted rapist for very little reason. He's a much-loved character, possibly the most popular out of the capturable characters in the game.
TL;DR: The rape culture is perpetuated by gender inequality, archaic sexual values imposed on women and the act being idealised by using attractive characters.
First of all, I wonder why Trick or Alice seems to be the go-to otome game to highlight rape content. True, it's written by Hiyo, but it actually has one or two rape scenes. I would bring up Akazukin to Mayoi no Mori, which has a high rape content considering it's story-centric and not a purpose-made nukige. Not only that, but to reach the best endings, I remember them not being avoidable. Unavoidable rape to reach a good ending? I'd say Akazukin to Mayoi no Mori deserves the flack it receives from the non-Japanese otome community far more than Trick or Alice.
The fact of the matter is, rape is a popular fantasy amongst both men and women, particularly in Japan. I remember reading a statistic from a 2003 study that said that about 20% of Japanese pornography contains rape. Women are encouraged to be innocent and virginal, yet sexually available. You can commonly see this with their female idols (such as AKB48) and the types of female anime characters that get very popular. This is also why virgin porn is very popular as well. As a part of this "innocent, but available" thing, women are encouraged not to take the initiative in sexual encounters. How many otome games have women in charge that AREN'T depicted as a slut, "mind-raped/fucked" or a whore? Very, very, very few. Part of this isn't just about being into rape, but not making the protagonist "sexual" for fear of her being seen as a slut. Or some writers just can't comprehend being sexually in charge due to this cultural upbringing, so submissive protagonists are all they feel as though they can write about.
I don't want to derail this too far, so I'll try and confine it to otome games. It may sound very weird, but think about it: how many rapist characters are physically unattractive in otome games? Pretty much 1% of them, right? The fantasy isn't just about a very "authentic-looking" rape fantasy- by this, I mean the characters are not consensually sexually active people acting out a rape fantasy like some real life couples do, but somebody is actually getting raped.
The very basic element of the fantasy seems to be that a super-attractive guy wants you so badly that he can't control himself. I can assure you that the rape culture in otome games would not be nearly as extensive if the perpetrators weren't physically attractive, borderline Gary Stus. Also, it's common to add "moe" traits to these rapists, so their "cuteness/moe-ness" afterwards can be used to make readers "forgive" the character's act. It's also common to give "excuses" to these "hot rapist guys", ranging from poor upbringing to something as vacuous as "stress".
For instance, how many people defend:
Saburou from Chou no Doku Hana no Kusari? Yes, he's a side character. Yes, him raping Yuriko was played for drama, and wasn't at all supposed to be titilating since it pretty much happens off-screen- not to mention that he's ugly, likely from a poor background because of his job as a servant, is low on the social ladder, is unpopular and hinted to be incompetent at his job. He isn't shown to have any redeeming qualities whatsoever. It's like the devs made sure his rape can't possibly be seen as a "good thing" by characterising Saburou to be so undesirable. They knew that making Saburou attractive would take away the "horror" of what happened to Yuriko due to the likelihood of their readers not seeing this event as tragic if Saburou were attractive.
This is purely hypothetical, but imagine if popular characters like Kanata and Suzuya from Starry Sky raped Tsukiko. They both fit the bill of typical character "types" that would still be liked by most of the Japanese community even if they did such a thing to her. Kanata is a tsundere, whose shyness in romance would give him the "inexperienced" excuse and perhaps his illness may be seen as a "stressor". Plus his "cute" tsun-tsun ways would be used to endear players to him afterwards. Suzuya is hinted to have yandere-like tendencies, so his "mad jealousy" would likely be seen as a "justification", or worse, as a desirable trait, since it makes the readers feel "wanted". It may be "flattering" for a perfect guy like Suzuya to want you that much.
An example in R18+ otome games would be:
Ookami-san, who (in)famously 180-ed into a cold-hearted rapist for very little reason. He's a much-loved character, possibly the most popular out of the capturable characters in the game.
TL;DR: The rape culture is perpetuated by gender inequality, archaic sexual values imposed on women and the act being idealised by using attractive characters.
Ah, I also picking a game based on seiyuu, if my favorite seiyuu (Midorikawa Hikaru, Hino Satoshi, Miyano Mamoru, Namikawa Daisuke) are in there, I will definitely buy the game xD
Hm... I wonder why they doesn't like rape scene or endings. I don't hate it though. In galge, most of the title have non-rape (I mean, the protagonist usually ask about it to his girl before doing it. But yeah, the CG's showing us like the protagonist is actually raping the girl >_<) just like in Shuffle! and To Heart 2 Ex rated.
@LaCaL
I'm agree with you. Even in the end is actually up to the fan, I would not judge good or bad games by how much rape scenes appear. It's a culture that exist in there, I will respect it and that means I'm fine with it xD
For example, I would like to play R-18 for Amnesia, Diabolik Lover and Gekka Ryouran Romance xD And if they consist a rape scene, it's okay and I still love the game; because it story already good, so if they put other elements it's never change my opinion. But it's a different story if the developer change the guys characteristic xD
To clarify, I don't want anybody to think I like or don't care that rape is in otome games. Like kyuuichi mentioned, it should be up to fans and for the most part, judging a game entirely on rape scenes isn't fair.
I never "like" rape scenes, for many reasons. I don't get any sexual enjoyment from it, I usually dislike the type of characters most likely to be "the token rapist", I hate how it commonly makes the protagonist "like it" which blur lines (another conversation for another day), I hate how poorly constructed, random and shallow in reason they crop up... so many reasons, but I think I've covered the main ones.
I can "accept" rape scenes only if there is creative merit. Still, I totally empathise with those of the opinion that even if rape is depicted as non-sexually appealing as possible, it can still be offensive and unnecessary. However, my view is that if it is part of the storytelling process to an adequate enough degree (i.e. not just a shitty and insensitive excuse to fulfil a handful of readers' fantasies), I can accept its reason for existence.
Extremely sadly and more often than not, this isn't the case. I could be here all day if I made a list of poorly characterised rapists and their scenes. I'm not saying that if the characterisation is good, the rape scene becomes okay. I'm trying to say that adequately showing the character's motivations can make a rape scene have more meaning to the story. Instead of just a shitty little fantasy, it could be a moment where the author wants us to have a first-hand account of the character's coldness, brutality, etc.
I'm not sure if I worded what I wanted to get across correctly, but hopefully nothing I have said comes across as "GTFO, rape scenes are okay, stop being an SJW!"
To clarify, I don't want anybody to think I like or don't care that rape is in otome games. Like kyuuichi mentioned, it should be up to fans and for the most part, judging a game entirely on rape scenes isn't fair.
I never "like" rape scenes, for many reasons. I don't get any sexual enjoyment from it, I usually dislike the type of characters most likely to be "the token rapist", I hate how it commonly makes the protagonist "like it" which blur lines (another conversation for another day), I hate how poorly constructure, random and shallow in reason they crop up... so many reasons, but I think I've covered the main ones.
I can "accept" rape scenes only if there is creative merit. Still, I totally empathise with those of the opinion that even if rape is depicted as non-sexually appealing as possible, it can still be offensive and unnecessary. However, my view is that if it is part of the storytelling process to an adequate enough degree (i.e. not just a shitty and insensitive excuse to fulfil a handful of readers' fantasies), I can accept its reason for existence.
Extremely sadly and more often than not, this isn't the case. I could be here all day if I made a list of poorly characterised rapists and their scenes. I'm not saying that if the characterisation is good, the rape scene becomes okay. I'm trying to say that adequately showing the character's motivations can make a rape scene have more meaning to the story. Instead of just a shitty little fantasy, it could be a moment where the author wants us to have a first-hand account of the character's coldness, brutality, etc.
I'm not sure if I worded what I wanted to get across correctly, but hopefully nothing I have said comes across as "GTFO, rape scenes are okay, stop being an SJW!"
Nah, if anything you gave a coherent analysis as to why rape is a thing, rather than defended it, kudos there.
Frankly I find the whole thing to be very distant from my own culture, which is probably why I feel so strongly against it being a thing teenage girls 'like' to experience.
On the other hand fiction =/= reality I guess.
@LaCaL
Again +1 for you ^^
I love the way you'd explained it >w<
Still for me, if that scene has a meaning in his route, it's okay. I also wouldn't want run some rape scene; like bad ending, it depend will I do it or not ;p
This sentence, always come to me whenever I'm starting play a game ^^ So, I will never comparing reality with in game situation >_<
About the culture... It goes same to me ^^ No offense, Eastern culture are strong in my country; even local TV cannot bring Meitantei Conan because the rule said it too bloody and will not give a good moral for the watcher :(
I like the perspective of your about how you skip the scenes >w<
@LaCaL
Again +1 for you ^^
I love the way you'd explained it >w<
Still for me, if that scene has a meaning in his route, it's okay. I also wouldn't want run some rape scene; like bad ending, it depend will I do it or not ;p
@SilverAliisza
This sentence, always come to me whenever I'm starting play a game ^^ So, I will never comparing reality with in game situation >_<
About the culture... It goes same to me ^^ No offense, Eastern culture are strong in my country; even local TV cannot bring Meitantei Conan because the rule said it too bloody and will not give a good moral for the watcher :(
I like the perspective of your about how you skip the scenes >w<
Same, I never actually actively put myself in Main character's shoes. But often times I grow very fond of the character (ken ga kimi for example) and I feel damn sad if something bad happens to them. Well 'bad'. If it's a bad ending then I guess it's all fair?
I just want the heroine to have a backbone ==" either grow a backbone, or let the player choose every action, like in TMGS
and bastard boys who equal love=teasing. I already face lots of these in real life, and it's not fun,
or even worse, abuse=love, since this teems to be the trend =="
and characters that's all like I HAVE A SAD PAST LET ME TORTURE YOU FEEL MY MANPAIINNNN
just because you have a sad past doesn't give you an excuse to be a bastard
or characters that were all "KIRAI DA BAKAAAA" for like, 90% of the game then suddenly goes "SUKI DA"at the ending
like, what wut when?? so you just suddenly decided to fall in love with me since this is an otome and it almost end??
and also........not-handsome characters. At least let me dream, this is a game.....
and bastard boys who equal love=teasing. I already face lots of these in real life, and it's not fun,
or even worse, abuse=love, since this teems to be the trend =="
and characters that's all like I HAVE A SAD PAST LET ME TORTURE YOU FEEL MY MANPAIINNNN
just because you have a sad past doesn't give you an excuse to be a bastard
or characters that were all "KIRAI DA BAKAAAA" for like, 90% of the game then suddenly goes "SUKI DA"at the ending
like, what wut when?? so you just suddenly decided to fall in love with me since this is an otome and it almost end??
I really like games containing some humour (the more the better) or parodies
Also, a game where our heroine is respected would be a very nice change, i.e. not treated like an eternal victim, a damsel in distress or even a thing.
Besides that, I wish there were more decent male characters who, actually, were able to respect a woman and saw her as a human being. But wishing for equality and respect is so western. I kinda doubt that Asian games will promote anything like in the near future
Besides that, I wish there were more decent male characters who, actually, were able to respect a woman and saw her as a human being. But wishing for equality and respect is so western. I kinda doubt that Asian games will promote anything like in the near future
Yeah sometimes I get exasperated by Jpn social etiquette in some situations. I do understand the game is written from a Jpn perspective so I also feel like it's a moot point to complain about. But my rage is still there :/
Example: Girl twisted her ankle badly right b4 the fireworks festival. She pretended she was okay because she didnt want to ruin the fireworks for the guy. This is a great example of holding back for the sake of others but... I'd rather you not do that at the expense of your health. Srsly gurl, you have a injury. Screw the fireworks, get that leg treated pls.
I like to have a heroine with a voice because it's a lot easier to me to play those games. I want to play without any translation tool someday^^
I also like a historical japanese setting or anything with Youkai in it, School life is also fine with me. But I prefer mature characters and H scenes.
Example: Girl twisted her ankle badly right b4 the fireworks festival. She pretended she was okay because she didnt want to ruin the fireworks for the guy. This is a great example of holding back for the sake of others but... I'd rather you not do that at the expense of your health. Srsly gurl, you have a injury. Screw the fireworks, get that leg treated pls.
Totally agree with you.
IMO, that's not just an unnecessary self-sacrifice, but also a really bad way of building relationships. Instead of telling the truth: 'I have a problem,' she simply brushes it off like nothing happened.
If the guy cares about fireworks more than his partner, then he's not interested in a relationship with her.
If he diminishes her for 'causing trouble', then he definitely has quite unrealistic expectations about women.
And if the girl doesn't get that - her perspectives with him aren't very bright ;)
Totally agree with you.
IMO, that's not just an unnecessary self-sacrifice, but also a really bad way of building relationships. Instead of telling the truth: 'I have a problem,' she simply brushes it off like nothing happened.
If the guy cares about fireworks more than his partner, then he's not interested in a relationship with her.
If he diminishes her for 'causing trouble', then he definitely has quite unrealistic expectations about women.
And if the girl doesn't get that - her perspectives with him aren't very bright ;)
it's not even a fireworks/oh no leg twisted example that shows it; it's more the whole 'oh noes he yelled at me so for sure it's my fault'. Or even the 'oh noes he is abusive but I'll stick with him for NO REASON so he'll lov me'. If those 2 types of situations were completely erased from otomes, I'd be a happy person.
Another thing I'd gladly erase is a trope of the guys, actually. Right now almost every otome game has a tsundere, yandere, shota, 'megane', playboy setup. Some could say it's to 'account for every taste' but shoehorning characters into tropes makes them so flat -.-. I feel like we need more mixes of a few tropes for every character?
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