Repeating symbolic hand gestures in anime and doujin, ever noticed ? or know what it is ?

[Animaksiat]

don't think there's any intention for the symbols... it's just simply it looks girlish! that's why many illustrator draws it like that!

why am i saying it? coz im an illustrator as well

 

[Will98]

[MENTION=33968]Monjster[/MENTION] I lolled at your post. That was a good one.

[MENTION=25661]GenKiDan[/MENTION] and [MENTION=37707]FinalPyre[/MENTION] Both of you in my office please. :P

As Animaksiat posted. There is no conspiracy, gang symbolism, secret organizations, etc. How you people came to those conclusions... I am better off not knowing. The "W" hand "symbol" in anime/manga is to show feminism or being female to viewers.

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Yes i do believe its a fallacy... the one where nothing can be proven either way because there is no solid proof (or should i call it devil's proof?)... we both pile arguments for or against but there is a lack of proof to say if either was right or wrong... Otherwise it would be proven and accepted one way or another...~
We havent closed our minds to the idea of a secret society... its just that it seems improbable to us while it seems to be a certainty to you... So were approaching the subject with different mind sets and can probably see one argument working for or against is the same way... Like how we dispute their existence and you take that as a sign that they exist because thats one of their purposes...

 

[FinalPyre]

Hmm. I believe I have come to a conclusion. I don't think it is worth stating, because I don't think it will alter anything other than things I don't want to alter. Because of this conclusion, this may be my last on this topic, for now (unless something truly interesting surfaces, for I do love interesting things!).

...And I have replied to everything so far to show you.

By now it is probably painfully evident that I have indeed not done extensive research into these matters. My responses are based primarily on what I already know, what I know about the world, and what you have posted. I would like to at least state that unless you do indeed possess some very fantastical knowledge of evidence which giving even some basic hints at would be too long to be practical, all my reasoning should be reasonably logical.
To say the anecdotes you have briefly alluded to thus far were unconvincing would be an understatement. Most of them only acted as evidence to support against your case. It was my goal to point that out, and, once again with my conclusion, it is unclear to me whether I was effective or not. Not that there is no possibility, just that the evidence is warped, and observed reasoning unsound.

Some points you try to make I almost think you should be able to answer yourself

Yes. Yes indeed I can. The point was for you, and other people reading the posts, to consider them. Because most of the answers were pretty obvious. I was still interested to see your reply though. I can't possibly know what you are thinking until you write it out for me. :)
Most of it was to try to get around some clever evading actually (not sure if you were trying to be quite so clever, but in the end you indeed were! And by Jove this last post as well: clever indeed!). It didn't work.

Note Denial is a common psychological factor that works in most people as a defense mechanism to explain away things that the mind regards as too "ground shaking" or "hard to believe" And your assumptions of things over and over selects only the things which would make things harder or more "unlikely".

No. The basis for my reasoning was "If I am to believe this, then the most likely result is this". It was following a chain of cause and effect. I like truth more than comfort. My love of stories tells me I would like to believe in secret societies. My brain in the real world tells me that I shouldn't, because to do so wouldn't currently make sense for me.

Don't worry, I've read everything of what you've said.

I'm glad to hear it! If it makes you feel better, I've read everything you posted literally dozens of times. This was a pretty interesting topic.

Then i think you need to read it more times still... Never did I say it was proof for their existence.

Of course you did not outright say it. It was heavily, heavily implied. And once again, this only works if you have definitive proof that they exist. If you have already confirmed beyond reasonable doubt that they exist, then it was certainly a reasonable thing for you to say! Otherwise it is a logical fallacy.

Again, I didn't......
This is what I said:
...As you can see I never said that that they where "in on it", so it's something you assumed then as I said.

I fleshed this out in another post, not sure if you got to it yet or not. Once again it is not that you directly said it, but more a case of "if what you said is true, then this should also be true". It was implied.

they always sway one way in order to make it harder or unprobable to believe.

I can honestly tell you I am trying not to be biased here. I even tried to think up worlds where this could work, and mentioned some of them. The problem is that it is so ridiculously hard for something like this to work that any time you add some other factor, it is almost always going to only make things more difficult.

rly ...? It's a logical fallacy to suggest that the reason you may not know and believe the existence about a society is becasue their a secret one that operate without direct admittance? lol sam. Thats not a logical fallacy. But it is silly to claim so.

Actually I'm almost certain sam is talking about the case absence of evidence being evidence of absence here. If that is what he was referring to, he is correct. It is a logical fallacy. I was actually impressed with how succinct sam was in his first three lines. Good job, [MENTION=40508]Sam[/MENTION]

thats certainly one piece of the puzzle since they own it... they would be better able to do so than anybody else.

I think I've already said enough about these kinds of trains of thought. I'll try to say it one more time succinctly, rather than a single instance in scope: The more your organization controls the larger it has to be. The larger your organization is, the more difficult it is to maintain.
When you suggest they own so many enormous organizations, it immediately starts to sound increasingly like a case of "everyone is in on it except for me" to me.

You would have learned a little of that earlier as well if you had bothered to watch the video I posted. It's only 27 minutes long.

But that is longer than an anime episode ;_;
When I learn things, I want to speed-read. orz


EDIT: I think sam just made a TL;DR for the entire thread. XD

[MENTION=4809]Will98[/MENTION]; I'll be darned if this isn't the most in-depth discussion/debate you've had in the discussions/debates category XD

 

[Will98]

Sam expresses his thoughts for 60% of the posts in this thread Orz

 

[GenKiDan]

don't think there's any intention for the symbols... it's just simply it looks girlish! that's why many illustrator draws it like that!

why am i saying it? coz im an illustrator as well

And I see your also a pervert...I think I can think of one other setting you might have seen that handsign in lolz. Very girly indeed.^

GenKiDan and FinalPyre Both of you in my office please. :P

As Animaksiat posted. There is no conspiracy, gang symbolism, secret organizations, etc. How you people came to those conclusions... I am better off not knowing. The "W" hand "symbol" in anime/manga is to show feminism or being female to viewers.

Well you wouldn't know obviously, but as you yourself state, you don't even know....so I think that says something about the weight of your conclusion, it's therefore not a conclusion anyone should take too seriously, since it's based on a lot of "air" for lack of a better word. Sure... I'm sure you would have to know as well as others who really know nothing about it, as I would say to anybody else that somehow think they know that. If you have read this thread from the beginning you can see thats something I've already pointed out plentifully, and your only committing the same mistake by not having sufficient knowledge about the subject before putting out such a verdict. Even though they are getting so bold these latest years and the majority sheeple so dull and sleepy they hardly have to worry about being find out no matter what they do it seems anymore, they seem to know that, before they had to actually be careful, but times have changed. Rockefeller who bears a prominent name in all of this himself doesn't even agree with you according to his own words, he straight gives admittance of a conspiracy in is autobiography. To quote:

"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure -- one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
- David Rockefeller, "Memoirs" autobiography (2002, Random House publishers), page 405

You see by the time they are ready to enact some of their plans the population may be so manipulated and inundated, not only can they not see what is right in front of them, but they will possible even want, and ask for the New World Order. Not realizing that they are being duped and that the negative forces as well as the positive ones are being controlled by the same side. It's simply a part of their Hegelian Dialectics or problem>reaction>solution.

Though as in regard to the w in anime what you and animak mentions of it being an actual symbol used for feminism was interesting, first concrete suggestion I think so far where it's given an actual meaning, still doesn't hold up to me though knowing what I know about the use of symbolism in certain circles, also it's used by boys so that puts a little bump in that theory to me as well.

Yes i do believe its a fallacy... the one where nothing can be proven either way because there is no solid proof (or should i call it devil's proof?)... we both pile arguments for or against but there is a lack of proof to say if either was right or wrong... Otherwise it would be proven and accepted one way or another...~
We havent closed our minds to the idea of a secret society... its just that it seems improbable to us while it seems to be a certainty to you... So were approaching the subject with different mind sets and can probably see one argument working for or against is the same way... Like how we dispute their existence and you take that as a sign that they exist because thats one of their purposes...

Well, it's not a logical fallacy that "you may not know something because it is or been a secret" (which most people are expected not to understand about, and is also the case) Cause is that not a true statement ? So where is my logical fallacy then ? And what is it. Just talking about proof as IF I've used that as proof for their existence when I haven't, doesn't change anything. You say I take it as a sign of their existence, but thats just untrue, because I never have, Your twisting it then to mean the opposite. It has never been "something exists because its a secret" Now that would be a fallacy, but claiming that I have done that is false. On the contrary I've pointed out that your lack of basis for something should not be the basis for drawing the opposite conclusion that they don't exist without even looking into the matter, or your logical may lead to faulty conclusions based on what you currently think you know and understand...But that IS a logical fallacy of making an "argument from ignorance" Instead you need exactly just what you tried to assume telling me, before ruling things out...something I've reiterated again and again, knowledge and investigation to base something on...Which you don't have of the subject either. And this is only double true for something that is suppose to be part of secret societies, or otherwise something that is convoluted and intrenched in psychology and manipulation, requires careful consideration. Not assumptions lacking in knowledge about the very issue...thats self explanatory and logical.

By now it is probably painfully evident that I have indeed not done extensive research into these matters. My responses are based primarily on what I already know, what I know about the world, and what you have posted. I would like to at least state that unless you do indeed possess some very fantastical knowledge of evidence which giving even some basic hints at would be too long to be practical, all my reasoning should be reasonably logical.
To say the anecdotes you have briefly alluded to thus far were unconvincing would be an understatement. Most of them only acted as evidence to support against your case. It was my goal to point that out, and, once again with my conclusion, it is unclear to me whether I was effective or not. Not that there is no possibility, just that the evidence is warped, and observed reasoning unsound.

Yes as you've noticed I've pointed out. A good and fundamental point.
Though your making quite a statement saying that my anecdotes are evidence against my case. When naturally it would rather be the other way around, I wonder where you would get those ideas, have you made more assumptions about something ? But if they are actual evidence then by all means, prove it if you can.

Yes. Yes indeed I can. The point was for you, and other people reading the posts, to consider them. Because most of the answers were pretty obvious. I was still interested to see your reply though. I can't possibly know what you are thinking until you write it out for me. Most of it was to try to get around some clever evading actually (not sure if you were trying to be quite so clever, but in the end you indeed were! And by Jove this last post as well: clever indeed!). It didn't work.

Heh, what are you actually saying here...? That the answers I gave you, you already knew before hand, and just pretended not to in order to see what I would answer ?...it sounds more like an explaining away to me, as you would have no reason to be less than honest upfront. And here, what do you mean, that you pretended not to "understand" again mostly in order to avoid evading. And how would that work... And then you claim me of pulling of some kind of trick ? And what didn't work ? just this part seems more far fetched than my "case" itself now. If thats so I call BS, it would be a weak argument trying to say this in retrospect now in order to explain away past responses or behaviour. But if I've misinterpret it you'll have your chance to set it straight ofc.

Of course you did not outright say it. It was heavily, heavily implied. And once again, this only works if you have definitive proof that they exist. If you have already confirmed beyond reasonable doubt that they exist, then it was certainly a reasonable thing for you to say! Otherwise it is a logical fallacy.

Again...ofc I did not outright say something like that, for I would never, I've never said it. And I've not implied such a thing even though you claim I have, nor would I. If you have imagined it, then you have simply imagined it. In the end it's apparently you who where confused, but see my answer to samy as well if you need it, since I had to basically tell that to him as also.

I fleshed this out in another post, not sure if you got to it yet or not. Once again it is not that you directly said it, but more a case of "if what you said is true, then this should also be true". It was implied.

Exactly, I did not say it, but an other thing you assumed. Based on your reasoning that things would have to play out in that order or way. But they might just believe what they have been taught.

///
Also I wonder if a lot missed my latest post before this one: Other example Post Since I was editing that while some of these new answers came.

 

[FinalPyre]

Well, it's not a logical fallacy that "you may not know something because it's a secret" Cause is that not a true statement ? So where is my logical fallacy then ? And what is it.

It is a logical fallacy to assert that something probably exists because it is secret.

Though your making quite a statement saying that my anecdotes are evidence against my case. I don't really believe that, but since you claim it's evidence you can easily present it right ?

This is apparent. Virtually all my posts were showing why the (presented) evidence was dubious at best.

Heh, what are you actually saying here...? That the answers I gave you, you already knew before hand, and just pretended not to in order to see what I would answer ?

More like I knew what the answer could be, and how it should effect reasoning.

...mostly in order to avoid evading. And how would that work... And then you claim me of pulling of some kind of trick ?

In most cases where I presented a question, it was because the obvious answers would break some part of the previously posted evidence (in most cases the original topic of hand signs of this thread). Repeatedly, if my question was even attempted an answer (the fact that many were not is a bad sign of itself), it would only use the small parts where it might work while ignoring the fact that it would simultaneously be breaking the rest of the system, or only use the example cases were it would work, and ignoring the ones where it didn't.

If you have imagined it, then you have simply imagined it. In the end it's apparently you who where confused, but see my answer to samy as well if you need it, since I had to basically tell that to him as also.

I'm not sure you know how the rational thought process should work (most people don't though). To say it in a nutshell, you go "if this, then this". The second part is hardly an assumption compared to the first. You were doing the assuming (that your evidence was true), and I was saying that if that were the case, then you should be able to expect this result.

Exactly, I did not say it, but an other thing you assumed. Based on your reasoning that things would have to play out in that order or way. But they might just believe what they have been taught.

Oh come on now you aren't even trying! Who did the teaching then? Some other expert in the field? Someone had to purport it first. That first person would be the person in the fleshed out example I gave.

It appears that you believe this because you want to believe it, rather than having good reason to. That being the case, I don't think there is much point in continuing, unless you get rid of this dragon in your garage.

 

[Animaksiat]

well... in fact im wondering other things actually... ever since people know what freemason nor what ever they are, people always believe about what it's called conspiracy of secret society.

because of people that think like that what actually is conspiring, making people believe on something that probably don't exist!

and even if they are exist, i just don't see where the conspiracy is going just by making what this "so called hand symbol"

oh no, wait i know a symbolic hand conspiracy

note: just because some people have POWERS, doesn't mean they can control all humans in the planet, much less for japanese who just open their border for 150 years! they have strong sense on their own culture not to be easily influenced by other nation.

 

[AntaBaka]

end of the day, symbols are symbols and they only have meaning if you give them any.

 

[GenKiDan]

It is a logical fallacy to assert that something probably exists because it is secret.

No it is illogical to keep claiming something I haven't done that I've already pointed out that it's something I've never claimed as I've already explained...And stated just the opposite in that it should not be used in the opposite manner. The real fallacy is 'argument from ignorance' when you don't have any knowledge from the subject to base it on yet except your current sphere of knowledge, as I've said and you also stated as obvious, then instead of acquiring the necessary knowledge to do so instead drawing the conclusion it probably doesn't exist based on ignorance of the subject. And that is what I've been reiterating, and explained over and over, yet so far you've ignored it and claim I've claimed something that I've already explained I have not claimed. Since I have already explained the quote above....
[/quote]

This is apparent. Virtually all my posts were showing why the (presented) evidence was dubious at best.

No, they show assumptions. Something I've pointed out in my replies to your quotes.
More like I knew what the answer could be, and how it should effect reasoning.

In most cases where I presented a question, it was because the obvious answers would break some part of the previously posted evidence (in most cases the original topic of hand signs of this thread). Repeatedly, if my question was even attempted an answer (the fact that many were not is a bad sign of itself), it would only use the small parts where it might work while ignoring the fact that it would simultaneously be breaking the rest of the system, or only use the example cases were it would work, and ignoring the ones where it didn't.

What previous parts have been broken, none that I'm aware of. I have not ignored any facts that would supposedly "break the system" But your ignoring my answers as you can see very well from my first quote right above. And your questions where answered diligently and patiently explaining your assumptions up until recently where it would just be more assumptions to answer and that would not have much point in just continuing.

I'm not sure you know how the rational thought process should work (most people don't though). To say it in a nutshell, you go "if this, then this". The second part is hardly an assumption compared to the first. You were doing the assuming (that your evidence was true), and I was saying that if that were the case, then you should be able to expect this result.

I don't think you should necessary expect that result. That they would have to be in on it. what evidence are you referring too that I did I assume was true ?

Oh come on now you aren't even trying! Who did the teaching then? Some other expert in the field? Someone had to purport it first. That first person would be the person in the fleshed out example I gave.

Your here simply changing the statements while also ignoring that you claimed I've said something even though I didn't and if I did it would be in black and white here in this thread, which it is not. Previously trying to justify that claim by your reasoning that there had to be strong evidence that they didn't exist. Or they where in on it simply assuming that they could not be ignorant. And your reply was to a simple statement of mine saying "some historians and scholars might claim that they went extinct". Which btw begs the question for me, where is this "fleshed out example" of yours, since your reply was in relation to my statement. I reiterate, I made the simple above statement, and you assumed they where in on it, and claimed I had said so even though I didn't. A strawman argument won't change that. We never talked about who purported it at the very first or how they did so. You might want to shift focus on to somebody else after I already having refuted that claim beyond a doubt. Since regardless of who purported it doesn't mean that they which I mentioned in my statement are in on it. (and even if they are I haven't said so) As if it wasn't clear enough that "they" are not "changed" into your fleshed out example, or original purporters already from the fact that your claim was based on my simple comment to begin with and not the other way around.

It appears that you believe this because you want to believe it, rather than having good reason to. That being the case, I don't think there is much point in continuing, unless you get rid of this dragon in your garage.

Again you make a faulty assumption, that I would want to believe it, I believe it for all the basis that is for it, some of which I have been able to present so far, and while also making clear the fallacy of doing the opposite without actually learning the basis for the subject. Said that quite a few times now.
I would say quite the contrary, despite what I've shown so far, you seem to just ignore it because of Denial. And a willful ignoring of what has been presented and is also available if you would be willing to do your research first. Even an admittance is not enough for you that they have become so bold as to admitting to conspiracy about what was before strictly hush hush. It's no wonder the elite can be bold.
But I agree there might not be much point in continuing, I wanted to show and present to people, and that I've been able to do. What you or they do with it from here on is up to themselves, if they simply want to dismiss based on lack of basis for it or if they will become more alert now and be able to see more, even possibly you who are the strongest disbelievers maybe, and possibly learn more about it to see what might really be the truth of the matter.

 

[FinalPyre]

Post just so you know I've read your reply! :)

Nothing useful to be said though. I stand by my conclusion.

 

[GenKiDan]

Okey, I should return the favor then ....Roger that, maybe it just has to end that with us standing by and being true to our conclusions or arguments then and what not, but together still....
"Ofc I'm only saying that because of those manly tears you have".....
My keyboard wants a new layer of paint

And overall I think it feels somewhat positive that we both got to say what we did.
I curious though since I didn't get around to ask if you watched the john F. Kennedy video, that was only 10 mins or so...

 

[FinalPyre]

A good discussion is always positive! Well not always but usually. :)

I didn't watch it because I thought it might be expected for me to watch the first video first. XD

HW is trying to beat me up right now though, so I need to focus for a while!

 

[T-ELOS]

Live long and prosper? Maybe Vulcans love anime as well?

 

[GenKiDan]

I see Pyre. I think I'll save the question about what or how your homework is like for an other thread.

T-ELOS, perhaps, but I'll tell you I already looked at that sign and it's relation to Jewish mysticism and kabbalah....Just so you know.

 

[T-ELOS]

I see Pyre. I think I'll save the question about what or how your homework is like for an other thread.

T-ELOS, perhaps, but I'll tell you I already looked at that sign and it's relation to Jewish mysticism and kabbalah....Just so you know.

I'm a bit of a Trekkie so I know it's origin, just thought I would add to the thread

 

[xXPsychoKittyDXx]

a lot of people already know or have heard of this before, i would even venture to say it's rather mainstream to mention secret society influence. as i previously mentioned, i have gotten into numerous different discussions with a wide variety of people of different backgrounds, ages etc about this same thing. so i would say a lot of people are aware. this isn't a new or unusual discussion. but, overall, at the end of the day, most of what it all really amounts to is speculation with things that seemingly could link together, but there is rarely solid evidence or proof that they actually do. also, at the end of the day, it doesn't make much of a difference for most people in their everyday life to just know that there is possible symbolism in different kinds of media. since not many people can actually truly pinpoint exactly who and where it comes from for sure and what it's true purpose is and/or if it's actually taking a noticeable effect on people, there isn't much to be done about it. especially when it's true purpose is relatively unknown and even if one does claim to know it's purpose how can you be sure they are right and it isn't a false trail? (also the concept of how can you really know very much about a society that is supposed to be secret, that would mean they aren't so secret) i feel like being too overly concerned with this kind of secret society speculation leads some people to be distracted from the problems right under their nose, ones they can actually do more about.

 

[GenKiDan]

I'm a bit of a Trekkie so I know it's origin, just thought I would add to the thread

ah okey, Live long and prosper then. I grew up more with starwars btw when I was a kid ^^ But you must really be a fan to know that much details about the show I guess.

 

[FinalPyre]

By some ridiculous, sheer coincidence, I stumbled across this today: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/04/conspiracy-theory-poll-results-.html

You may find it interesting.

 

[AntaBaka]

Lets just all take the spectics route

that all we can truely know, is nothing, as knowledge of the external world is unattainable.

 

[GenKiDan]

[MENTION=68171]xXPsychoKittyDXx[/MENTION]; I don't think too many are rly aware, going around talking about illuminati in music videos or lyrics alone is not what I'd call aware yet, even though it could be a possible start, many people just 'stay' in that focus and are not aware how expansive and subtle it can be when artists go around flashing pyramids that are far more easily discernible. And yet there where times before where even obvious symbolism was not known....there really has been an explosion in the later years on that matter. One can have heard this and heard that and still be blindfolded. And if one looks into the things that supports their existence it's not just speculation with no basis(have you checked out the rest of the thread?), even if you have talked to different people who do speculate. Awareness would make a big difference since it could help protect them from manipulation, enable them to possibly see things that would otherwise go by them as previously mentioned and lay the groundwork for important things in the future, things even ppl here in this thread who don't believe might start to remember at a later stage when they could need it. But even if you don't see that or find that valuable and would rather just think "what can I do anyway" and think that no one should bother because you think that, then thats a mistake. If everybody thought like that then maybe information about them would be far less available or go unnoticed. You don't have to do anything about it. But others might, and their entitled to that choice.

And the part about them being secret has already been talked about back and forth in this thread. Just because we're talking about something entitled 'secret societies' and there exists knowledge, does not mean their not secret. The less you know about them, the more that only shows that they are a secret to you. And I find in the way you write about them that they seem pretty much still a clouded secret to you.

And it would not mean that they are not so secret. Secrets can be found out after all. You don't think the allies found out secrets about the axis forces during world war 2 that they where not supposed to know or that it would be impossible for them to do so...because it was something secret in the first place ? Or that if they did find something out, then would that mean it was not really much of a secret after all ?? Thats just not logical, No of course not. The only thing where this does apply and in the reverse order (as a bad logic) is when ppl will argue a secret probably does not exist because they either don't know, or don't know enough about it. It doesn't mean it would be impossible to know for others who have looked into the matter as some have.

Well I'm sure many secret societies would appreciate you being more concerned about being too distracted by them. But thats fine, like I said, thats up to you and the individual, I never claimed anything else as I made clear in my first response. But again that has no actual bearing on this thread, I mean I see no reason to justify this thread of mine in case you might think it a waste. People must be able to judge that for themselves, just like information should be available but if people find it interesting, or what they do with it is up to themselves. I'm certainly not Apple.inc or any other entity who thinks choices are to hard for the consumers to decide themselves so I must make them for them.

 

[xXPsychoKittyDXx]

did i say the conversations i had were only about music videos or lyrics? no that was YOUR assumption. i said i've had numerous discussions on this subject, i didn't say it was only about music videos though. also, it cannot be very secret if information is readily available and easy to access online. if i have a secret group, i'm not going to leave any kind of possible evidence that it exists. nobody should know except for those within the group. if others find out, the secret is exposed. even if only a few find out, the secret is exposed. and as i mentioned before multiple times, if people are finding out things about them then they aren't doing a very good job of being secret. or as i said before, they are allowing people to know certain things because it is of minor importance. either way if you have a huge secret you want as little info as possible to be discovered about it unless it is something that will not affect much in the long run. and i doubt secret societies think much of me. i am not brainwashed or blindfolded to truth, i just like having solid and/or probable evidence. how am i going to be falling into what they want when i'm doing what i want? i have a strong mind, which is why i question a lot of this stuff in the first place. i'm just being skeptical of what is actually evidence, links and helpful information and what is just speculation and overanalyzation. i never said they don't exist, i just said there are problems right in front of us that are easier and more helpful to solve than trying to decode clues of a secret society. and yes i said it was speculation that the things you showed are connected to a secret society because that's what it is. speculation. it isn't a confirmation or denial. it's not even necessarily a definitive clue. if they are intelligent they will know better than to put out clues that can be easily decoded with a little bit of research. or as i said before, a false trail maybe? you cannot rule that out. the only way to truly and fully know much about these things is to be directly involved with it. and as i also said before, what is to be done? where to start? one example maybe? besides just looking at every detail and considering it as possible evidence of a secret society what else can be done? just telling people to do that? okay and then what? also, what is the last majorly negative thing that this secret society has done recently that affects a whole lot of people besides symbolism? what catastrophes are they responsible for? (not saying they haven't done anything bad, i just wanna know one big thing they've done recently that affected a lot of people) who's in it and how do you know? what qualifies those people to be in that organization? also there is the possibility of some of these details in certain media not being secret society at all (and no that doesn't mean i'm denying their existence) and just for aesthetic appeal? some people like pyramids and eyes and aren't doing it for a secret society, it depends on the person and their taste in art, and some people might add possible secret society symbolism not because they're involved but for shock value. that isn't impossible either. sometimes if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck and not a secret society. also, yes secret society clues could be in anything and everything. ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. the only way to get away from it is to stop being a part of normal society and go live in the forest somewhere. also if you're saying hand gestures are a clue, then anything repetitive could be a clue, and just because it can be chalked up to something else doesn't make it not a clue and devoid of meaning. and anime has a lot of things that are repetitive, including and not limited to: catgirls (cats were practically worshipped in ancient egypt and could be symbolic) japan propaganda (i've noticed that practically every anime/manga has some kind of japanese propaganda about how they're the best or whatever), big boobs (who knows? this could be a clue), moe (can't rule anything out), chibi, ninja, space, robots etc. there are so many things that could be linked to a secret society that it isn't even funny but it would take days looking through all of it and trying to sort out what is linked and what is not and even if one does that they aren't gonna know for sure unless they are actually in the secret society. hell a secret society clue could just be how someone sits, the shape of their hair, the positioning of certain items, i could list a lot of things. finally, if all or most of this symbolism is a secret society, what ISN'T connected to a secret society? we don't know all the secret societies that exist and or have existed before (some of them may have even destroyed all their evidence of existing) and what their symbols or patterns are, and a lot of seemingly mundane things can be linked to symbolism or something of that sort somewhere along the line. but at the end of the day you'll end up spending a whole lot of time trying to figure it out and figuring out what can be connected and what represents what and trying to decode things, when there are problems right in front of you that have an easy and obvious solution and need no decoding.
EDIT: Overall, this is what I'm saying: at the end of the day, these types of conversations never really get past the stage of people arguing and debating over symbolism and secret societies. They never go anywhere productive and people just end up being annoyed because either A: someone doesn't believe or is skeptical and they're being "ignorant and/or brainwashed" (and I take that as an insult because you're calling the person stupid and/or close minded when they have their own VALID personal reasons for being skeptical) or B: someone gets mad at the people who believe for believing because they personally don't believe (which can also be insulting). Nobody ever really says much on how anyone can take action on it or actually DO something about it, they mainly just say the same things as you about "being aware" but it never goes beyond that. No one really ever even gives definitive clues to what the true purpose of these symbols are or anything besides the old vague "world domination and/or brainwashing". No one really pinpoints where or who this is coming from besides some who speculate upon it being politicians, the government and/or celebs and high society rich people and/or people in entertainment industry. I'm just saying, where is this conversation going? what actions can be taken besides awareness? what information is there about these societies besides their supposed symbolism and supposed goal of world domination and what is one recent action they've taken to further that cause? besides just the symbolism i wanna know something bigger than that and what I can actually do about it besides just acknowledging the fact that there could be symbolism everywhere. and yes, i've done research on this topic before, read books, seen documentaries, watched youtube videos, but like i said, it never goes past the claims of the secret societies, their symbolism and secret societies of the past. oh and that their goal is world domination. but so far, they haven't dominated the world or united people under a one world government under satan in all the time that these secret societies have existed. I'm not saying these secret societies don't exist but they sure are taking their sweet time, and they must be quite stupid to let info about their goals and their members and their modern symbolism leak to any old random netizen. This somewhat reminds me of the guy who claimed the world was going to end in May 2011 because of all this research and math that he had done, but the world did not end. i'm not saying these societies don't exist but i'm gonna need a lot more definitive proof than just symbolism and the claim of world domination. don't call me "ignorant" or "blindfolded" just because i am skeptical. plus, what is so wrong with trying to fix problems in front of us that can be solved with no decoding? that would do plenty of benefit for the world right now as it is and in the future.

 

[Will98]

 

[GenKiDan]

To be exact, I didn't assume that, you did, that I did. I simply made a general statement about something, not a claim about you or your people specifically. Since a majority of people do what most people do in this regard, namely only look at things superficially. Only a few really digs deep below the surface. Ofc it can be secret, I've already answered this. Just because something secret gets out in some light, doesn't prove or indicate it's not a secret. And as stated right above, few people really looks into it to learn too much about it anyway. And so they might very well make the self contradictive claim that they can't be very secret if information is readily available, even when they ironically don't know much about it despite it. So it's not so, since you could have a thick book filled to the brim with secrets lying on your very own dresser or "secret dossier's" from ww2 on your hdd and it would still remain secret and shrouded in mystery until the day you actually read it. They could be doing an excellent job(whether it be for e.g. damage reduction now, or part of a bigger psychological plot), seeing as you and many others still don't know what to think of their mere existence and most will never even look any further than that. Yet those who do set out to research deeper to see if there is basis, finds a coherent and pervasive story of both words and history revolving around manipulation and control behind the scenes. You want to know what to do, then educate yourself on the subject so you can actually base yourself on thorough knowledge and know if there is basis for what you don't know, then you won't rely on speculations of either others or yourself.

"how am i going to be falling into what they want when i'm doing what i want? "
Eh, you really believe that shows that people who do what they want can not fall into what they/others want.... I'm flabbergasted to even hear such a statement.
If thats what you really think, then this subject is clearly not for you. If people were aware of manipulations it would not have such effect anymore. And if people did what they wanted aware and voluntarily it would no longer be led by hidden manipulations.

I've replied to you about their "secrecy" already before bountifully, there's no point in repeating it over and over. And about you wanting some kind of special inner detail of their big recent push for their ..(well, you say affecting a lot of people, that isn't necessarily the most relevant thing depending on the context, but for their agenda, thats what matters) that is, first off, quite above the scope of this thread. Secondly it's not necessary to know such details to know their agenda and see it prosper, since even if you know what a certain goal is, there could be different ways of getting there. Yet possible recent things aside if you really are interested, knowing their goals you can expect continuing increasing in centralization of power and resources into fewer hands, "war on terror" demanding greater control and surveillance, de-armament, and destruction of peoples rights and liberty.

Also you don't have to spend a whole lot of time trying to speculating their symbolism, that would be what you would do if you where just going to be sitting around speculating. So no, instead you should educate yourself on their meaning instead of speculating about it.
In regards to the things you added, to keep things short, I didn't call you ignorant or blindfolded simply for being sceptical, but you are ofc ignorant in the face of what you are unaware of, that is simply how it is, being the denotation of ignorant, your the one assuming again trough the connotation of stupid.... You don't take offense every time you walk into a classroom do you ? ... The statement about being blindfolded above is just an other simple fact.

And again you you go about the "problems in front of you" I've already answered you. Back then it was a Fallacy of relative privation And how you are going about doing that now is also a strawman argument, which is silly now after I have clearly replied to it more than once and clearly pointed out what I have NOT said, or told you to do, or not do.
Also as I've said already in the above post and before regarding the point(or your productivity) of the thread, I don't think I should repeat it, just read my post above or the ones before that. I don't need any more justification of the thread now then the last time I said so, and if you have other things to do, then do so. It's up to each ones themselves, and each one has the right to make that choice themselves as said.

So all this being reiterated, I don't see any point of discussing this anymore. But by all means, do your own research and find out for yourself if you want. Or leave it, and continue to think as you want about it.


LOL [MENTION=4809]Will98[/MENTION] ; you found me all the way out here in the outskirt fringes >< And p.s. I know that guy from the "alien seed" theory, maybe you've seen it, or just a coincident, he has a nice hairdo thats for sure. And a lying "friend" on the same show apparently. Plus he looks comfortably happy.. p.p.s. Surprised you didn't use a hash tag to get my attention.

 

[Will98]

I have seen a little bit of the show. Didn't really know you were posting anything here anyway. I thought posting that was very fitting. But how this really should have happened is I should have posted this after your post. More epic.