First of all, as much as I would like to answer every thing brought up here so far, every skeptical thought or programed belief systems or whatnot, and reply to every detail in kind, thats a bit tiresome, and so I will try to answer on the whole of things roughly at least and to my ability. And hope I don't come across as too opinionated but regarding the whole unknown societies thing, thats just a fact that most people are ignorant of, and I know too much to just ignore that or certain other things in relation to them.
Ah sorry, I thought this was mostly a joke. I didn't know you were into this kind of thing. :)
Some serious thoughts are in order, then:
My example was an analogy, not a direct comparative example. The big thing with coincidences is that you only note them when they occur, not when they don't occur (this becomes very important when considering large amounts of data).
I can see why people like these things and could believe them, but I personally do not.
Here is my main problem with this theory, which can be extended to virtually every conspiracy theory:
If I am to accept that this hand position seen in anime and manga is a conspiracy to some underlying organization, then I also have to assume that these anime producers and manga artists are aware of it, or directly influenced by it. I then have to assume that they are all organized and intelligent enough to keep this completely silent, and just to keep spreading their symbol for some unfathomable cause.
These assumptions to me seem so ridiculous as to be completely improbable (not impossible mind you, but improbable). Therefore I find it extremely unlikely for there to be anything else behind this other than chance, or in this case, that people simply thinks it looks nice. You could say there is a conspiracy of people thinking it looks nice, and I would agree that this could just be the case.
(sry no joke, I don't know how I would make this into one, and yes I've been into this stuff)
So I thought about answering just roughly but it's gonna turn into a long post then, feels like a lot of work in trying to cover and and explain every possible possibility inducing too much speculation just to show what is already visible. I won't ignore that there are naturally occurring questions that are left unanswered, but that doesn't prove anything and is not a valid counter claim,(we don't throw out the baby with the bath water after all) that would be bad logic. Except that we, including myself don't know everything there is to know about it. Not so surprisingly when the very nature of the topic is about something covert and hidden.
Of course it's not impossible for artists to be involved with this, improbable... not imo. Why should it be ?
But just like the freemasons have their secret callsigns in between themselves to identify each others and show their alignment and belonging why shouldn't others also ?
People that are being recruited don't know everything as the higher levels do either. Typically the lowest levels haven't got a clue what their really apart of.
For those who already know, it's not even new, there are works of artist centuries old encompassing hidden esoteric symbolism in their work.
Alice Bailey a theosophist and a great initiate, teacher in the mystery schools, founder of 'Lucifer trust' and 'World Goodwill' a NGO organization within the United Nations write in her works that it is part of their plans to "externalize the hierarchy" i.e.
make known to the public eventually what was kept hidden, and to let the public
gradually become accustomed to the idea and concepts covertly, could that have something to do with trends today..., unfortunately I don't have all the answers to it.
And since you probably don't know this they worship Lucifer, that is their God, for every bodies information. So for anyone that's atheists, their not your "friends" either. They just intend to deal with you lastly. So in regards not just to the signs, but regardless, make no mistake about it, these people and societies are not theory, it's just common for many who are still largely ignorant of it to discard it as such. That is something the "elite" enjoys very much I'm sure btw, hiding in plain sight, because it demonstrates their power over the minds of the unsuspecting masses.
This has been a big topic in general. Well if you want to look at symbolism you must also look at rap music or just music videos in general. They are full of pyramids, all-seeing eyes and all kinds of stuff. I read many interviews where rappers said that video producers are to blame for that as they are the ones who put them in there. Now I didn't really notice it in anime that much though. I know in hip hop it is widely used just to atract attention (putting random all seeing eye in the middle of your music video atracts people to watch it and talk about it meaning that you are becoming relevant). Honestly, I don't still know what to think of it. I'm still learning and reading about it a lot but I am not really close to a conclusion yet.
It might be a way someone wanted us to scracth our heads for nothing for for all I know.
I've heard that as well that the producers are doing it, and believe many of the artists are clueless. I heard a story once of a person that apparently was attempted recruited by a organization that goes by a latin name I don't remember any longer. I think most of the big stars are made or offered membership, you either play ball or you might not make it, but apparently if you do become a member, it doesn't matter whether you got talent or not, they have the power to make you rich and famous, probably very alluring for some.He told they suddenly put drugs on the table, and asked if he wanted some, then they called in a lot of beautiful girls and said he could have anyone of them he wished...
The thing is that if they just put an image in things with no known purpose, they basically accomplish nothing: advertising your secret organization is counter-productive! I find it hard to believe that some group capable of masterminding such a huge bout of propaganda without being found would be content accomplishing nothing (and dumb enough to visually label things that they've influenced).
People are doing it because they think it looks cool.
Though of course, given a long list of similarly documented conspiracies, the probability that at least one of them exists is substantially greater. The problem is that each one by itself is extremely improbable (assuming no meaningful evidence).
Though once again with the music video thing, you will also only make note of videos that contain those symbols when watching them, not the ones that don't. I'd hazard to guess the latter more than slightly outweigh the former.
And like said most people are ignorant of them, so I wouldn't call that advertisement at least to the more subtler and discrete stuff, unless you talked about the music video's Mjonster brought up which is pretty indeed pretty blatant. There are some possible reasons why they might want to "expose" themselves, but really just a part of themselves, like useless pawns in a checkboard game. And that --00dwelves00-- into some reverse psychological propaganda. A method they empoly summed up as problem>reaction>solution Shortly explained they themselves covertly create the problems, then wait for the reaction and offer the solution. Solution being what they wanted from the start off course. Only now, they aren't forcing it on people, people are manipulated into wanting it, and even thinking it's their own idea.
Oh I have problems understanding your point with the latest phrase...isn't that just a given ?
Hmm it might have some meaning behind it but maybe not as much a you would like to say? Could just be a simple thing you could google and learn a new hand sign in sign language or something ;p They could also just think it looks cool... saw it elsewhere and thought to copy~ The world is sort of a collection of random things that influence each other... kind of hard to just say there is a single influence for any one thing~ The place ive seen people have those two fingers together is judo tournaments =w= They tie them together for, what i would assume, more control or a stronger grip~ So its could be taken that theyre all in a secret organization or they saw other people do it and decided to try it as well =w= The meanings of symbols can change with every new person~ Unicorn horns originally represented the male genitalia (only found by virgins alone in the forest... i wonder why~) but im fairly sure that most people these days dont actually know that or use it for that purpose in their art~ Its more fancy decoration that anything now~
It's bad example with judo cause they obviously do it for the purpose of, well, judo. The esoteric symbols of the initiates goes back to antiquity btw, so it's not subject to the whims of new persons. That would destroy the symbol and make it useless.
I will not delve into this too much because I lack significant information to justify my reasons and thoughts.
I have noticed those 'hand signs' at a young age when reading manga. Not sure which one, but I believe it was a shoujo.
Why and how did I notice them?
Because they looked weird. If you think about it, who has their hand in that 'W' shape in everyday life... having two fingers in the middle sticking together while the rest spread out.
So, I imitated it and realized how uncomfortable it felt... because fingers weren't meant to be placed like that. A natural looking picture or manga cover art would have each of their fingers spread, closed, or maybe a pinky or thumb off to the side a bit.
When I read manga, it can take me an hour to flip one page because I'm constantly admiring the art and thinking why they chose that angle or those words to convey their feelings. On the way... I saw those hands with the 'W' fingers.
I didn't think too much later on though. Considered them as a 'style' like how the characters had their mouths opened. When you think about it... if you take a picture... do you smile or have your mouth open showing the inside of your tongue?
However, the 'anime-style of having your mouth open despite it looking off-putting in real life' just works.
The same can be said for the 'symbols' and other 'subtle signs'.
Perhaps, they thought it looked 'nice' or they did research and thought it can incorporated into the story or character.
We're entitled to our opinions.
In the end, for me, as much as conspiracy or whatnot does sound fascinating, but I won't hold much light on it due to my lack of information and understanding of what such things entails.
Oh... right. I did notice that the 'W' fingers were some hand gesture for a certain college. Probably saw it on the news.
I'm glad you noticed that, and how unnatural it really is. Though like my response to my first reply in this thread I don't think comparing it with facial expressions does it justice. After all it comes quite normal to make faces, that comes naturally. If you traveled to a new planet and introduced anime drawing to those there so that they also started making anime, would they make faces, in many forms and expressions ? ofc, thats what facial expressions area for, but would they make this handsign ? would that be a natural thing to do.. Food for thought.
Lol well... i guess it does feel better to hold the book...~ Some translations are bad though... too small to read @_@ Dont think i would sniff the ink though...
Was sort of talking about online stuff... How long i stay usually depends on the detail of the page...~
Illuminati... only know that theyre some kind of organization that was supposedly taken care of long ago but some people think theyre still around... =w= Wonder if they communicate with members through random symbols and stuff...~ Must be quite complex for everyone else to not figure out..~
I remember saying that somewhere sometime when you where around. Yes some scholars or historians might claim that they went "extinct" or something after they where officially banned from the bavarian government and warnings sent out to the governments of Europe, their lodges raided, disbanded and members arrested. That show you just how much of a conspiracy "theory" they where.
Maybe they are all just fans of 2pac/West Side xD.
Hah Believe me I took good notice of that ^ And I didn't know many years ago what it represented.
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So I will include some materials here for all of you who want to learn more, find it fascinating or whatever. Then you will have something more to base this all on. This is all a bit bigger than just the scope of the hand signs, but I see it might perhaps be necessary or beneficial to give a greater fundament for all of this.
I might post more, but I will save that for a separate post I think, if nothing else but for better overview and organization.
Although quite subtle in your works.
